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Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

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Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#251

Post by AcerbicZero »

Its not a direct comparison, but having owned cars from Japan, the US, and Germany, watching the videos of cars being made by the major manufacturers makes the difference somewhat obvious.

I've linked them below, but just looking at the factory processes, the workers, and the methods used it seems the German process is just designed to build cars with tighter tolerances. The cars don't move down assembly lines with humans touching them (in the 911 factory). When a human is working on the car, the car isn't moving. Compared to the Corvette (much cheaper, but still "high end") you can see how quantity is prioritized, and how the car never really stops for any extended period of time, before moving down the line.

Again, this is a totally subjective opinion, but comparing my current car (VW) to a similarly priced Ford I test drove the other day (GT350) the difference in build quality is night and day.

This is a Porsche factory, building an expensive, high end 911 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbcKZ1lRDuA

Here is the Chevrolet Factory building a Corvette - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ccOrwFs3No

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#252

Post by dsfyu404ed »

Take this with a grain of salt. A vehicle's reliability has just as much to do with who you sell it to (at scale) as what the vehicle is. Reliability ratings are greatly biased toward vehicles that are expensive and don't have tons of manufacturer financing incentives to put them in the hands of everyone with a pulse.

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#253

Post by JPKab »

rtpg wrote: post #5

This is a bit flame bait-y but I really feel like America is getting a super Galapagos effect compared to the rest of the world. Everything is super different and weird and kinda bad, and nobody seems to notice. I go to peoples houses in the US sometimes. Some of these houses are multimillion dollar homes. The doors are all terrible. The plumbing is crap. The furniture just feels bad. The cheapest studio apartment in…

"I go to peoples houses in the US sometimes. Some of these houses are multimillion dollar homes."

Where in the US? First mistake is acting as if a house built in northern California is representative of a house built in rural Maine, or suburban Texas.

If you think it's remotely monolithic, it absolutely isn't. But there's definitely a pattern of lower quality building in very high-growth, high cost of living areas where the property's value isn't related much to the building, but mostly reflective of the land and it's location.

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#254

Post by DuskStar »

Ill_ban_myself wrote: post #202
Doubleslash wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German citizen here. I travel to the US quite often - I find that the quality of the Grocery stores is on average one level up. The quality of the goods sold there is another story. But mid-and southern Europe likes it cheap when it comes to these things. There is a reason why we call them "discounters". I really do hear you on the housing quality - it's ridiculous what people are willing to put up with over there. W…

The effect on housing you see is a unique artifact of unconstrained unregulated capitalism: Property investment firms and private, "house flippers" have been buying up old houses at market value in many US cities for over a decade. They paint them grey, put new cabinets in, a new shiny refrigerator, and put it back on the market for double the price. The first time one of these places sells (with black mold still in…

It certainly takes something to look at a housing market where regulations enforce artificial scarcity and say that everything wrong with it is the result of capitalism...

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#255

Post by war1025 »

non-entity wrote: post #194
systemtest wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen videos of people tripping in their home and punching a hole in the drywall. My apartment in the Netherlands is 100% drywall but I need to run into it at full force to even make a dent. To make a hole in it I need tools.

> I've seen videos of people tripping in their home and punching a hole in the drywall Did that last year. Went to stretch and pressed my palms firmly on the wall and one side punched in. Apartment complex made me fix it too. You could also easily hear neighbors and whatever domestic dispute they were having that week. I live in a nice place now. Advertised as "luxury", but everything still seems cheaply built

I think a lot of this is that people don't know what to look for, so they buy based on appearance rather than quality.

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#256

Post by kube-system »

huffmsa wrote: post #52

> CR says Chrysler’s Pacifica was one that contributed to the drop in rankings thanks to the minivan’s infotainment and transmission issues. Every single "downgrade" I read about is either infotainment or transmission or both. Except Honda, which apparently has shit locks on it's kid hauler. I'm a bit skeptical of consumer reports after actually reading it. My car, a Subaru WRX is given low marks for "stiff ride and…

CR reviews cars as appliances. Their target market is the mainstream buyer. If you're looking for a enthusiast review, they're the wrong publication.

What they do, they do well. Their reviews are consistently: "what my mom would say if she drove it".

Consumer Reports is not Car and Driver.

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#257

Post by Gibbon1 »

DuskStar wrote: post #254
Ill_ban_myself wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The effect on housing you see is a unique artifact of unconstrained unregulated capitalism: Property investment firms and private, "house flippers" have been buying up old houses at market value in many US cities for over a decade. They paint them grey, put new cabinets in, a new shiny refrigerator, and put it back on the market for double the price. The first time one of these places sells (with black mold still in…

It certainly takes something to look at a housing market where regulations enforce artificial scarcity and say that everything wrong with it is the result of capitalism...

Capitalism is the reason that regulations exist. Apartments cost less than single family homes. Makes total sense for developers to get regulations passed that prevent that sort of competition.

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#258

Post by P_I_Staker »

jiggawatts wrote: post #109
beefield wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everything is super different and weird and kinda bad, and nobody seems to notice. I have this a bit uneasy impression[1] that a really significant chunk of US is basically a developing country with bigger cars. [1] Based only on visiting a few developing countries as well as a few states of US. Not on any statistics or data whatsoever.

The United States is the World's richest third-world country. You have crazy levels of gun violence, high inequality, tribal politics, high levels of corruption that have been legalized via Super-PACs, effectively state-run media (Fox News), highest per-capita incarceration, a failing medical system, failing infrastructure, etc, etc... The best example I can think of to show how far the US has fallen behind the rest…

I don't think I can get behind that sentiment. The USA is in another league from third world countries in most of those categories (except maybe gun violence and incarceration).

Ignoring Super-PACs for a second, we don't need to grease some palms to get things done in this country. USA does not rank that high in corruption. It's not that big a part of day to day government compared to countries that have a serious problem. We have effective government institutaions. Fox news is not state run, it panders to one political party that happens to be in power.

The metric system is not the best example or even a good one. I'm not going to defend the decision, but it's simply a tough thing to handle politically. Depite the issues that it causes, it's not a good indicator of living conditions in a country. It's a costly nuisance more than anything.

I can definitely agree we have our issues. Specifically, high incarceration rates, medicare, and infrastructure. These are issues I'm very upset about. That doesn't make us a third world country though. Just below average (amoung developed countries). You have to be delutional or out of touch if you think living in the USA is like living in a third world country.

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#259

Post by jki275 »

rtpg wrote: post #5

This is a bit flame bait-y but I really feel like America is getting a super Galapagos effect compared to the rest of the world. Everything is super different and weird and kinda bad, and nobody seems to notice. I go to peoples houses in the US sometimes. Some of these houses are multimillion dollar homes. The doors are all terrible. The plumbing is crap. The furniture just feels bad. The cheapest studio apartment in…

Having lived in Japan for a significant portion of my life, I would really disagree with you on all of this.

I lived in a very expensive, up scale apartment in Japan, and everything in it was very poor quality in comparison to the quality of my (not mcmansion) house in the US. My doors are good quality, plumbing works fine, furniture is much nicer and less expensive by an order of magnitude.

I do most of my grocery shopping at Aldis, and certainly you can get fresh fish more easily at the corner grocery in Japan, but otherwise the selection is better even at Aldis than at most groceries in Japan. There's nothing like a Wegmans or a Harris Teeter in Japan at all that I ever saw -- maybe somewhere upscale in Tokyo or something.

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#260

Post by toomuchtodo »

justapassenger wrote: post #36
kstenerud wrote: post #2

It's interesting to note the difference in communication styles when company PR teams respond to requests for comments. Fiat Chrysler and Chevy both responded in predictable marketroid speak, complete with extensive use of passive voice and grand, hand-wavey platitudes "We care committed to blah blah blah" "Quality is of the greatest importance blah blah blah" "blah blah above industry average blah blah blah" "blah b…

Words are cheap. They’re under investigation for possibly hiding recall and issuing OTA instead that surprised people with sudden range loss ( https://www.businessinsider.com/nhtsa-investigating-tesla-up... ) They force customers to go over arbitration to fix yellowing entertainment screen on cars as young as few months. They tell people it’s normal wear and tear due to using cat in the sun ( https://teslamotorsclub.…

GM knew of an issue with ignition key switches that killed 124 people and required a recall of over 30 million vehicles. Tesla definitely has fault, but legacy automakers have faired far worse in safety standards.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_ignition_switch...

Ford has had to recall over a million trucks due to engine block heaters that would cause your engine block to catch fire.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ford+engine+block+recall

Disclaimer: TSLA investor and owner, opted out of arbitration and have yellow banding on my MCU screens. Compromise is inevitable.

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