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Uber CEO calls Saudi murder of Khashoggi “a mistake,” scrambles to backtrack

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Re: Uber CEO calls Saudi murder of Khashoggi “a mistake,” scrambles to backtrack

#111

Post by dang »

joshstrange wrote: post #108
dang wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you please not rant like this in HN comments? Venting indignation doesn't make this place better, and whatever substantive comment you have to make can be made in a way that adds information, not noise. When the froth rises all the way to allcaps, that's particularly a sign of the wrong thresholds being passed. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Also, please don't post the same comment twice: http…

Feedback taken, I apologize and will refrain from ranting in the future. I was unaware of the merging of stories being a normal thing on HN as I regularly see multiple stories posted about the same topic (not same link). I posted on one story then went the the home page, saw it posted under a different link and copied my comment over as it appeared to be where more discussion was happening.

Thanks for replying so nicely!

Yes, we definitely don't merge all of them but we do get many:

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

Re: Uber CEO calls Saudi murder of Khashoggi “a mistake,” scrambles to backtrack

#112

Post by Gibbon1 »

TwoNineA wrote: post #66

Let's all act shocked! 1- Uber is funded in part by Saudis. 2- They don't consider jaywalkers in their autonomous driving software showing that human life is ... not important.

I think I read somewhere that the concept of jaywalking was invented by the automobile industry. Go back to 1850 and the idea that you can't just walk across the street would be seen as inane.

Re: Uber CEO calls Saudi murder of Khashoggi “a mistake,” scrambles to backtrack

#113

Post by Gibbon1 »

dang wrote: post #106
joshstrange wrote: post #20

Oh yeah, Saudi's brutally tortured and murdered Khashoggi, Uber's self-driving car ran over a woman, and I forgot to take out the trash this week on trash day. All mistakes, all equal. Are we going to hold this over their heads forever, it was /just a mistake/.... /s "I didn't read the CIA report" well neither did I but from the coverage alone I would never call this a "mistake". Also they own 1/5th of your company,…

Would you please not rant like this in HN comments? Venting indignation doesn't make this place better, and whatever substantive comment you have to make can be made in a way that adds information, not noise. When the froth rises all the way to allcaps, that's particularly a sign of the wrong thresholds being passed. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Also, please don't post the same comment twice: http…

Does it bother you that the VC industry appears heavy involved in laundering money from high level criminals and thugs?

It would me.

Re: Uber CEO calls Saudi murder of Khashoggi “a mistake,” scrambles to backtrack

#114

Post by CalChris »

dang wrote: post #107
CalChris wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If HN is going to cover business articles then yes.

HN covers intellectually interesting articles: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Rage posts lead to rage threads. Those get many reflexive upvotes but tend not to be intellectually interesting. This thread is a case in point.

I thought it was intellectually interesting in that I wasn’t at all expecting Khosrowshahi to say that. Then it seriously got me to rethink how deep KSA’s talons are in Silicon Valley. I came up in the Sun Microsystems and Google generation of early profitability and fierce independence. This anti-unicorn era of unprofitability and obsequious dependence is disappointing. But if you are beholden to your funder then you are beholden to their politics. It really was the SV business angle I found interesting.

Re: Uber CEO calls Saudi murder of Khashoggi “a mistake,” scrambles to backtrack

#115

Post by dang »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #113
dang wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you please not rant like this in HN comments? Venting indignation doesn't make this place better, and whatever substantive comment you have to make can be made in a way that adds information, not noise. When the froth rises all the way to allcaps, that's particularly a sign of the wrong thresholds being passed. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Also, please don't post the same comment twice: http…

Does it bother you that the VC industry appears heavy involved in laundering money from high level criminals and thugs? It would me.

That's a different question.

Re: Uber CEO calls Saudi murder of Khashoggi “a mistake,” scrambles to backtrack

#116

Post by whalebird »

jacquesm wrote: post #101
whalebird wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really think that's what he should have said? Because that sounds like a vastly dumber thing to say, even if it's "honest". The "rogue operation" story is "good enough". It's plausible. That doesn't mean it's true of course. It doesn't have to be. Nobody has to actually believe it. It's just good enough so that everyone involved can save the minimum amount of face required to move on. The reason that the murde…

> It's plausible. You've got to be kidding.

> You've got to be kidding.

It is plausible in the sense of "plausible deniability". Imagine MBS saying something like "That Khashoggi guy, I wish somebody hacked him to pieces!".

You can interpret that as an order, or you can interpret that as a more casual remark of frustration. If you're ordering a murder, you may well want that kind of ambiguity in the order.

Furthermore, sometimes an unwise underling implements the perceived will of the dear leader in a way that is counter to their interest, e.g the assassination of Pompey "on behalf" of Julius Caesar.

Re: Uber CEO calls Saudi murder of Khashoggi “a mistake,” scrambles to backtrack

#117

Post by jacquesm »

whalebird wrote: post #116
jacquesm wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's plausible. You've got to be kidding.

> You've got to be kidding. It is plausible in the sense of "plausible deniability". Imagine MBS saying something like "That Khashoggi guy, I wish somebody hacked him to pieces!". You can interpret that as an order, or you can interpret that as a more casual remark of frustration. If you're ordering a murder, you may well want that kind of ambiguity in the order. Furthermore, sometimes an unwise underling implements…

In a state like that it is about as plausible as a US general starting a war with Russia on their own. Anyway, I don't suspect we'll ever have a fair trial where these details will come out. Just more murders to cover up for the previous ones, possibly in the guise of executions by the judicial system or what goes for that in that country.

Re: Uber CEO calls Saudi murder of Khashoggi “a mistake,” scrambles to backtrack

#118

Post by whalebird »

jacquesm wrote: post #117
whalebird wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You've got to be kidding. It is plausible in the sense of "plausible deniability". Imagine MBS saying something like "That Khashoggi guy, I wish somebody hacked him to pieces!". You can interpret that as an order, or you can interpret that as a more casual remark of frustration. If you're ordering a murder, you may well want that kind of ambiguity in the order. Furthermore, sometimes an unwise underling implements…

In a state like that it is about as plausible as a US general starting a war with Russia on their own. Anyway, I don't suspect we'll ever have a fair trial where these details will come out. Just more murders to cover up for the previous ones, possibly in the guise of executions by the judicial system or what goes for that in that country.

I don't think the power dynamics are that clear. The Saudi state is not at all under total control of MBS. Formally, his father is in power, there are other potential heirs to the throne. There is the possibility of intrigue.

In hindsight, it wouldn't make sense for MBS to order this killing, but it would make sense for a rival to blame the murder on him. That's hindsight of course. Equally plausible is the scenario where MBS is so self-absorbed, he orders the killing without regard to potential consequences.

Re: Uber CEO calls Saudi murder of Khashoggi “a mistake,” scrambles to backtrack

#119

Post by Gibbon1 »

dang wrote: post #115
Gibbon1 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it bother you that the VC industry appears heavy involved in laundering money from high level criminals and thugs? It would me.

That's a different question.

You answered it enough for me though.

Re: Uber CEO calls Saudi murder of Khashoggi “a mistake,” scrambles to backtrack

#120

Post by dang »

CalChris wrote: post #114
dang wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN covers intellectually interesting articles: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Rage posts lead to rage threads. Those get many reflexive upvotes but tend not to be intellectually interesting. This thread is a case in point.

I thought it was intellectually interesting in that I wasn’t at all expecting Khosrowshahi to say that. Then it seriously got me to rethink how deep KSA’s talons are in Silicon Valley. I came up in the Sun Microsystems and Google generation of early profitability and fierce independence. This anti-unicorn era of unprofitability and obsequious dependence is disappointing. But if you are beholden to your funder then yo…

That's as strong a case as anyone could make and I appreciate it. Perhaps if you or someone had posted a full comment like that early in the thread, it could have taken an intellectually interesting direction—they are sensitive to initial conditions.
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