Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings • Hacker News Board

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#191

Post by chopin » Mon, Nov 11, 2019, 12:11 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #117

cobbzilla wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re shopping at the wrong places. There is good bread out there. For better or worse, a lot of Americans like fluffy white bread that’s loaded with preservatives to give it a long shelf life. That’s what they ate as kids & they’ve never branched out. I’m not defending US mass market bread, but I do think it’s largely a matter of differing tastes and values. Your comment (and much of this thread) comes off as “I ha…

I was comparing supermarket breads in Europe and the US. So while I may be shopping in the "wrong" places in the US that doesn't really detract from my overarching point. A lot of people, in both areas, buy their bread at supermarkets. If supermarkets don't offer good products, that may also be a discussion worth having. > I have different values, I don’t understand mainstream American values in this or that regard s…

My experience (Germany) is different: You can't get a good bread in super markets here. Heck you can't even get a good bread at specialized bakeries (with some very rare exceptions). I bake my own bread as a result.

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#192

Post by tim333 » Mon, Nov 11, 2019, 12:11 PM UTC

navigatesol wrote: post #180

tim333 wrote: post #44

A lot of the issues may come down to whether management prioritize financial engineering / making huge bonuses / pleasing wall street vs making good vehicles. The same with Boeing - they used to be run by engineers who wanted to make great planes and then the shifted control to finance guys in Chicago who wanted to make big profits. You see the effect a bit with Tesla where I'm sure Musk would love to focus on qualit…

> A lot of the issues may come down to whether management prioritize financial engineering / making huge bonuses / pleasing wall street vs making good vehicles. The same with Boeing.. It's a funny thing to me that no one ever points this out in advance. Where were the articles about Boeing's move from an engineering culture to a financial one? Instead, we wait for the natural cycle of a business to arrive, then make…

>It's a funny thing to me that no one ever points this out in advance. Where were the articles about Boeing's move from an engineering culture to a financial one?

I had a google out of curiosity.

There was this from 2003: https://slate.com/business/2003/12/how-boeing-blew-it.html

>...The trouble is that his successor, Harry Stonecipher, is very much of the short-term-profits school... ...As one aircraft worker told a Seattle newspaper reporter after hearing the news of Stonecipher’s accession: “We are doomed.”

Although I don't know if that was really in advance - they had problems then too.

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#193

Post by notacoward » Mon, Nov 11, 2019, 12:23 PM UTC

kstenerud wrote: post #2

It's interesting to note the difference in communication styles when company PR teams respond to requests for comments. Fiat Chrysler and Chevy both responded in predictable marketroid speak, complete with extensive use of passive voice and grand, hand-wavey platitudes "We care committed to blah blah blah" "Quality is of the greatest importance blah blah blah" "blah blah above industry average blah blah blah" "blah b…

"We fixed one issue" isn't really any more informative than "we're committed to quality" with respect to overall reliability. One issue out of how many? How many customers are affected by those others, and how severely? How long are fixes taking on average? Tesla's response might resonate better in a community notorious for confusing specificity with truth, but it's still just spin.

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#194

Post by non-entity » Mon, Nov 11, 2019, 12:23 PM UTC

systemtest wrote: post #20

rtpg wrote: post #5

This is a bit flame bait-y but I really feel like America is getting a super Galapagos effect compared to the rest of the world. Everything is super different and weird and kinda bad, and nobody seems to notice. I go to peoples houses in the US sometimes. Some of these houses are multimillion dollar homes. The doors are all terrible. The plumbing is crap. The furniture just feels bad. The cheapest studio apartment in…

I've seen videos of people tripping in their home and punching a hole in the drywall. My apartment in the Netherlands is 100% drywall but I need to run into it at full force to even make a dent. To make a hole in it I need tools.

> I've seen videos of people tripping in their home and punching a hole in the drywall

Did that last year. Went to stretch and pressed my palms firmly on the wall and one side punched in. Apartment complex made me fix it too. You could also easily hear neighbors and whatever domestic dispute they were having that week. I live in a nice place now. Advertised as "luxury", but everything still seems cheaply built

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#195

Post by winrid » Mon, Nov 11, 2019, 12:29 PM UTC

juskrey wrote: post #110

I have travelled US a lot and have rented a lot of different cars. Honestly I don't know a much about reliability (except I got several problems with top Nissan models), but comparing to US cars, the rest of the world cars just don't drive and are not fun. And then you got Tesla which is crap inside but for some reason is super fun and you want to buy it immediately.

No fun Audi's or VWs??? Nissan Maxima? Subaru? Mercedes? Hyundai and Kia are also good handling and comfortable cars. I've completed in the Soul, Elantra, and some others and have some trophies with Korean cars (stock suspension etc).

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#196

Post by notacoward » Mon, Nov 11, 2019, 12:31 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #50

rtpg wrote: post #5

This is a bit flame bait-y but I really feel like America is getting a super Galapagos effect compared to the rest of the world. Everything is super different and weird and kinda bad, and nobody seems to notice. I go to peoples houses in the US sometimes. Some of these houses are multimillion dollar homes. The doors are all terrible. The plumbing is crap. The furniture just feels bad. The cheapest studio apartment in…

American bread is particularly problematic as someone that moved from Europe. Until I found bread I liked I'd often joke that it was suitable for storage in a bomb shelter since it has an unnatural shelf-life and tastes like it. After a tedious search, we wound up buying $2.60 "Sara Lee Artesano Style Bread" which is still less good than a 70c loaf of Hovis in the UK, and certainly less good than fresh made French br…

I had a colleague who came over from Norway - not known as a center of culinary excellence - and complained about the bread. I suggested that he should find a Jewish or Italian bakery, which he did, and then he was happy. It kind of sucks that decent bread is only available here in specialty stores and not alongside everything else in the grocery store, but that's how it is.

P.S. This advice was hyper-local (near Boston). Just a few miles away, I'm sure there are great Armenian bakeries and I would have suggested those. In some other city, who even knows? Local patterns vary, but there always seems to be someone filling this niche.

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#197

Post by rockarage » Mon, Nov 11, 2019, 12:41 PM UTC

notacoward wrote: post #193

kstenerud wrote: post #2

It's interesting to note the difference in communication styles when company PR teams respond to requests for comments. Fiat Chrysler and Chevy both responded in predictable marketroid speak, complete with extensive use of passive voice and grand, hand-wavey platitudes "We care committed to blah blah blah" "Quality is of the greatest importance blah blah blah" "blah blah above industry average blah blah blah" "blah b…

"We fixed one issue" isn't really any more informative than "we're committed to quality" with respect to overall reliability. One issue out of how many? How many customers are affected by those others, and how severely? How long are fixes taking on average ? Tesla's response might resonate better in a community notorious for confusing specificity with truth, but it's still just spin.

Obviously you did not read or understand the article. The article mentioned specific issues that CR attributed to reliability problems in car brands, and Tesla addressed those issues regarding their brand with very specific and informative answers. The other questions you mentioned were not brought up. Your comment is unreasonably critical, read and try to understand the article first.

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#198

Post by oblio » Mon, Nov 11, 2019, 12:45 PM UTC

navigatesol wrote: post #164

oblio wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could be. I find it amusing that from a climate change point of view, both their comments are basically negative: * good windows provide better insulation and reduce the need to heat/cool down a building, plus their reduce dampness since they keep moisture out * while a tumble dryer uses electricity for something which is not much of a chore (it takes like, 5 minutes, to hang the laundry and 5 more minutes to pick it…

> I find it amusing that from a climate change point of view, both their comments are basically negative: It's almost like countries like Germany (350k sq km area) and the US (10 million sq km) have different climates and needs. This thread is filled with Europeans saying, "I went to the US once, and their grocery store didn't have produce like my French neighborhood market!"

You're making so many assumptions in 1 short comment that it's hard to dismiss all of them without writing a novel. But still, this is HN, so let's go:

- I'm not German and most of my points apply in quite a bit of the EU

- the EU is about 4m sqkm, which while smaller than the US, puts them in roughly the same ballpark (they'd both qualify as "huge countries")

- the EU as a whole has at least as diverse climates as the US

- I'm not even sure what to respond to the "needs" part

- I've been to the US more than once, to different places

Let's track back a bit and find out what exactly your argument against high quality German windows is.

Is it that you don't need them in hot climates? You do, to reduce the need for cooling.

Is it that you don't need them in cold climates? I don't even know what to reply to this :-)

Is it that you don't need them in Mediterranean climates, a la California (stable relatively warm and dry climate)? Even there, there is variation, houses do need heating and cooling and it can't hurt to have better windows. I'll grant you this, but that's probably an area which is 1/30th or less of the US territory.

Or was it about normal drying vs tumble drying? The only solid argument against normal drying that I can find is that normal drying requires more space (and a bit more time, but you can easily plan around that). But US homes, on average, are way bigger than EU homes. So Americans could easily find room to dry their clothes. If I can do it in 65sqm, an American definitely can do it in 120+ sqm.

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#199

Post by notacoward » Mon, Nov 11, 2019, 12:49 PM UTC

rockarage wrote: post #197

notacoward wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We fixed one issue" isn't really any more informative than "we're committed to quality" with respect to overall reliability. One issue out of how many? How many customers are affected by those others, and how severely? How long are fixes taking on average ? Tesla's response might resonate better in a community notorious for confusing specificity with truth, but it's still just spin.

Obviously you did not read or understand the article. The article mentioned specific issues that CR attributed to reliability problems in car brands, and Tesla addressed those issues regarding their brand with very specific and informative answers. The other questions you mentioned were not brought up. Your comment is unreasonably critical, read and try to understand the article first.

I did read and understand the article, but the point stands. Over-specificity is as much of a smokescreen tactic as over-generality. It's not "unreasonably critical" to point that out, unless "unreasonably" has more to do with the sacred-cow object of criticism instead of the substance. Also, both the start and end of your comment violate site guidelines.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#200

Post by ubercow13 » Mon, Nov 11, 2019, 12:51 PM UTC

rjzzleep wrote: post #129

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same in the UK, where most of the bread you can get is basically intended for a toaster. But, it's down to volume and consumption; in my country (NL), bread is a daily staple, often featured in two meals a day - so a family will easily go through a loaf a day. It makes more sense to optimize the production and logistics for a shelf life of days instead of weeks. We can get reasonably fresh (factory-produced)…

I actually hosted some couch surfers from the UK and other places in the world while in Germany. I had a local market with an old bakery(remember that even in Germany the great majority of bakers are now a handful of companies) very close to my place. The bread they bake is genius it has just the right amount(little) sourness and never tastes soaky, crispy around but soft inside. But the point being is that some of t…

Are you sure things have HFCS in the U.K.? What’s it labelled as? I often look at ingredients and only ever notice “sugar” ie. sucrose