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How to Make Trillions of Dollars

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Re: How to Make Trillions of Dollars

#71

Post by ynniv »

jacoblyles wrote: post #35
mmaunder wrote: post #11

Modern industrial civilization has developed within a certain system of convenient myths. The driving force of modern industrial civilization has been individual material gain, which is accepted as legitimate, even praiseworthy, on the grounds that private vices yield public benefits, in the classic formulation. Now, it has long been understood, very well, that a society that is based on this principle will destroy i…

>"Now, it has long been understood, very well, that a society that is based on this principle will destroy itself in time. Bullshit. A society based on the principles of the free market will create unprecedented human health and prosperity[1]. Anti-capitalists are anti-human. I wonder if the billion or so people that climbed out of poverty over the last decade thanks to global capitalism would change Chomsky's mind a…

It's much better to work 16 hours for a $1 in your pocket than to do whatever you've been doing for the last 100,000 years. Those unfortunate poor people, someone should tell them how unhappy they are!

Re: How to Make Trillions of Dollars

#72

Post by steveklabnik »

protomyth wrote: post #61
mmaunder wrote: post #11

Modern industrial civilization has developed within a certain system of convenient myths. The driving force of modern industrial civilization has been individual material gain, which is accepted as legitimate, even praiseworthy, on the grounds that private vices yield public benefits, in the classic formulation. Now, it has long been understood, very well, that a society that is based on this principle will destroy i…

I've seen the effects of "rational social planning" by the enlightened and would rather go with the flawed individual freedom crowd.

You do understand that he's not speaking of a centrally planned government, right? Chomsky specifically advocates as close to direct democracy as possible.

Re: How to Make Trillions of Dollars

#73

Post by SageRaven »

jacoblyles wrote: post #32

Hey guys, it has been too long since our last self-righteous anti-consumerist circle-jerk. This one is good! You can smell the smarminess right through the screen. We live in a time where the individual has more freedom to do what he wants with his life than ever before. When people live longer, survive perviously unsurvivable diseases, and can get by with the least work. When the glorious knowledge produced by human…

> We live in a time where the individual has more freedom to do what he wants with his life than ever before.

I'm not sure about that. Sure, we have infinitely more ways to work and play today, but freedom? I imagine that a US citizen from 200 years ago may be in awe of our advances in technology and medicine, but they'd likely be aghast by the erosion of our personal freedoms.

I wish I knew the source of the original shtick (it sounds like Paul Harvey), the one that goes something like this: Today's free man rises from bed, turns on his UL-approved lights, eats his USDA-stamped eggs and bacon for breakfast while watching his FCC-blessed TV, brushes his teeth with FDA-approved toothpaste, climbs into federal-safety-approved car with state-mandated insurance, to work at his OSHA-approved workplace, to get his state-taxed paycheck....

The original is so much more eloquent, but it certainly makes a farce out of the concept that any of us are truly free any more. Every facet of our daily lives is controlled by layers of regulation.

Re: How to Make Trillions of Dollars

#74

Post by moultano »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #68

This was long-winded and flawed in many ways. To point just one flaw out: part of the argument is that the modern culture is designed by marketers to keep you unhealthy and consuming. That's confusing, yet again, correlation with causation. It's just as likely that modern marketers are just doing what people want. That the current system of distraction, consumption, and unhealthiness is evolutionary and not some mast…

I think that is actually his point towards the end of the essay. Replace "the man" with "the invisible hand." It's the same thing anyways. The solution is to build up your own personal resistence, not to rage against any external force (according to him.)

Re: How to Make Trillions of Dollars

#75

Post by Evgeny »

jacoblyles wrote: post #62
Evgeny wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mostly they just seem to get a kick out of criticizing how other people have chosen to live their lives. Doesn't it make you sad that a huge number of people are unhealthy, unhappy, die prematurely from perfectly preventable reasons or just plainly do not have any slightest idea about what to do with their lives? That's especially sad because it happens at the times when there are the most possible opportunities avai…

I recognize the diversity of the human experience and I understand that not everybody would be happy living my ideal life. This respect for the choices of my fellow humans often puts me out of step with passionate idealists who feel contempt for folks who live in a manner outside their dogmatic parameters. Living in Silicon Valley while growing up in the South East, being an Atheist and coming from a religious family…

Don't get me wrong, I'm trying not to judge people too. I just find it incredibly hard to comprehend some things - how can people choose to not care about their health, their future etc.

On a conscious level I know that I should respect their choices, on a subconscious it just still doesn't make sense to me.

Re: How to Make Trillions of Dollars

#76

Post by jerf »

nick_urban wrote: post #20
jerf wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excessively anthropomorphizing the Man is a quick way to sketch civilization, but leads to a failure to understand it deeply. If I were going to put a word on it, it would be glib . Sort of Malcolm Gladwell-ish. It's not necessarily that it's wrong, it's just so incomplete a view that it might as well be wrong.

The term "The man" may be glib in many cases, but if we understand that "the man is us" then we reach some place more fundamental. Heidegger has a fascinating analysis of this phenomena, which he calls "Das Man" or "The They". Most of the time, all of us are "the they" instead of being authentically ourselves. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heideggerian_terminology#.27The... Note: if you decide to read Heidegger, it ma…

"may be glib in many cases"

I agree with you in general, but I think this is one of the "glib" cases in the original post. Buying into "vs. the Man" is, ironically, one of the Man's main tools in the contemporary US; there are entire ethnic cultures in the US being held back in no small part by the belief they are being held back by the Man, which in turn requires them to be externally rescued by the don't-look-too-closely-just-believe-we're-not-the-Man-Man.

There's truth in the "Man" analysis, but the escape is to transcend the narrative, not engage with it. (The synthesis of the man/vs. the man thesis and antithesis, I suppose.) Which I doubt you disagree with, I'm just being explicit.

Re: How to Make Trillions of Dollars

#77

Post by tabsa »

kiba wrote: post #5
DanI-S wrote: post #2

Human civilization (and not just our current iteration) is like a gigantic, uncontrollable beast. It tramples thousands underfoot, growing fat on their fears and impossible dreams. Some people may be riding up on top, out of trample range, but they're still riding on top of a gigantic, uncontrollable beast with no real aim other than its own continued survival. Not much to be gained from blame or envy. Just try to se…

Well, look. I decided that I will get rid of the useless things in my life. Books and papers, trash, and so on. I also decided to save and not consume much. Therefore, I resort to making homemade sandwiches and finding water bottle. A few days ago, I made a pencil holder out of a discarded soda can. Why the hell not? There are cool things that I want to buy. But, they're mostly for making cooler projects. I am a pros…

From your comment it seems that your are advocating an "intellectual life". Isn't this the same old consumerism, just a changing real goods for virtual ones (aka information)?

Re: How to Make Trillions of Dollars

#78

Post by DanielBMarkham »

moultano wrote: post #74
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #68

This was long-winded and flawed in many ways. To point just one flaw out: part of the argument is that the modern culture is designed by marketers to keep you unhealthy and consuming. That's confusing, yet again, correlation with causation. It's just as likely that modern marketers are just doing what people want. That the current system of distraction, consumption, and unhealthiness is evolutionary and not some mast…

I think that is actually his point towards the end of the essay. Replace "the man" with "the invisible hand." It's the same thing anyways. The solution is to build up your own personal resistence, not to rage against any external force (according to him.)

A point which I think we can all agree.

I continue to be amazed at how many different places you can start at and end up with existentialism.

Re: How to Make Trillions of Dollars

#79

Post by sachinag »

SageRaven wrote: post #73
jacoblyles wrote: post #32

Hey guys, it has been too long since our last self-righteous anti-consumerist circle-jerk. This one is good! You can smell the smarminess right through the screen. We live in a time where the individual has more freedom to do what he wants with his life than ever before. When people live longer, survive perviously unsurvivable diseases, and can get by with the least work. When the glorious knowledge produced by human…

> We live in a time where the individual has more freedom to do what he wants with his life than ever before. I'm not sure about that. Sure, we have infinitely more ways to work and play today, but freedom? I imagine that a US citizen from 200 years ago may be in awe of our advances in technology and medicine, but they'd likely be aghast by the erosion of our personal freedoms. I wish I knew the source of the origina…

Heaven forbid you were a woman or black back then.

Furthermore, if you don't want to take advantage of regulations and consumer protections, you're more than welcome to raise your own damn pigs and build your own lamps in your home workshop.

Re: How to Make Trillions of Dollars

#80

Post by SageRaven »

sachinag wrote: post #79
SageRaven wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We live in a time where the individual has more freedom to do what he wants with his life than ever before. I'm not sure about that. Sure, we have infinitely more ways to work and play today, but freedom? I imagine that a US citizen from 200 years ago may be in awe of our advances in technology and medicine, but they'd likely be aghast by the erosion of our personal freedoms. I wish I knew the source of the origina…

Heaven forbid you were a woman or black back then. Furthermore, if you don't want to take advantage of regulations and consumer protections, you're more than welcome to raise your own damn pigs and build your own lamps in your home workshop.

As a 6th grader, I used to whip out my Swiss army knife to sharpen pencils in class, and as a young-adult I would pack that same knife onto airplanes.

Industry isn't the only thing that's more and more regulated anymore.

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