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We Should Let a Lottery Decide Our Government

thewalrus.ca

71–80 of 88 posts

Re: We Should Let a Lottery Decide Our Government

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's opaque about anything in the article?

(Not GP but) The composition of the body being one male and one female from each district plus two (presumably opposite gender) from Indigenous people and "adjusted for age" represent an element of opacity. What does "adjusted for age" mean? Am I less likely to be chosen if I'm in a particular age range (or particular age range crossed with district)? If a particular district is heavily skewed in gender (in either di…

That's a description of one particular experiment with sortition. I don't see the article proposing how, exactly, a random selection process should work at all.

Re: We Should Let a Lottery Decide Our Government

#72

Maybe. I am bothered that there's an unofficial pre-election in the US that is called campaign financing. It skews candidates towards the wealthy, corporate backed, or populist. If elections were publicly financed somehow, then perhaps we'd see a more representative selection. At least they wouldn't be beholden to donors as often.

We just need to make rules that encourage thoughtful engagement.

Not enough thoughtful engagement? More rules!!!

Re: We Should Let a Lottery Decide Our Government

#73

Maybe. I am bothered that there's an unofficial pre-election in the US that is called campaign financing. It skews candidates towards the wealthy, corporate backed, or populist. If elections were publicly financed somehow, then perhaps we'd see a more representative selection. At least they wouldn't be beholden to donors as often.

We just need to make rules that encourage thoughtful engagement. Not enough thoughtful engagement? More rules!!!

Yes, yes. Rules seem cumbersome. But access to the public makes a candidate more successful, and that costs money. Therefore those with the most money should be the most successful, to the point that policital pundits will report on dollars raised as an indication of campaign success.

Re: We Should Let a Lottery Decide Our Government

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We just need to make rules that encourage thoughtful engagement. Not enough thoughtful engagement? More rules!!!

Yes, yes. Rules seem cumbersome. But access to the public makes a candidate more successful, and that costs money. Therefore those with the most money should be the most successful, to the point that policital pundits will report on dollars raised as an indication of campaign success.

It's not they are cumbersome, it's that they often are ineffective.

If we were better at unwinding bad rules that wouldn't be so bad. But change is always bad.

Re: We Should Let a Lottery Decide Our Government

#76
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The specific provision at issue in Citizens United was part of the campaign finance laws for the same reason the Patriot Act is called what it is. But it had nothing to do with financing of campaigns. It involved speech prohibitions on corporations and labor unions unrelated to campaigns.

What? The issue the heart of Citizens United v. FEC (i.e., the Federal Elections Commission) was whether a non-profit's funding of a TV special criticizing a candidate violated the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act. I guess it's technically true that the decision doesn't allow more money to flow directly to the campaign, and there's not /supposed/ to be coordination with campaigns either (wink wink, nudge nudge), but it…

> The issue the heart of Citizens United v. FEC (i.e., the Federal Elections Commission) was whether a non-profit's funding of a TV special criticizing a candidate violated the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act.

In ordinary parlance, do we say “Apple funds iOS” or do we say “Apple makes iOS?” In Citizens United the non-profit produced and sought to air a movie called Hillary: the Movie. They didn’t “fund” any candidate’s political campaign.

> I guess it's technically true that the decision doesn't allow more money to flow directly to the campaign

By “technically true” you mean “true.” “Campaign finance” laws presumably have to do with financing of campaigns. The “role of money in elections” is a different, much broader area, much of it outside the scope of campaign finance laws. (For example, consider the alleged $5 billion in free advertising the press gave Trump. Do campaign finance laws allow the government to regulate that?)

One can imagine lumping in scenarios where someone is attempting to bypass a campaign finance restriction by directing a third party to produce content for the campaign. But that’s not what Citizens United involved either. There was no allegation of any such “indirect” campaign financing. Instead, the government tried a naked power grab: punishing a non-profit for making a political movie, with no showing of any link to the campaign beyond that.

Re: We Should Let a Lottery Decide Our Government

#77
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? The issue the heart of Citizens United v. FEC (i.e., the Federal Elections Commission) was whether a non-profit's funding of a TV special criticizing a candidate violated the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act. I guess it's technically true that the decision doesn't allow more money to flow directly to the campaign, and there's not /supposed/ to be coordination with campaigns either (wink wink, nudge nudge), but it…

> The issue the heart of Citizens United v. FEC (i.e., the Federal Elections Commission) was whether a non-profit's funding of a TV special criticizing a candidate violated the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act. In ordinary parlance, do we say “Apple funds iOS” or do we say “Apple makes iOS?” In Citizens United the non-profit produced and sought to air a movie called Hillary: the Movie. They didn’t “fund” any candidate’…

I'm not sure that many people draw the distinction you're trying to make. Kennedy's opinion itself describes the outcome of Citizens United in terms of campaign finance reform:

"A campaign finance system that pairs corporate independent expenditures with effective disclosure has not existed before today." https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/558/310/#tab-opi...

Virtually every bit of media coverage describes it in similar terms too. Still, it was a 5-4 case that produced five opinions, so if that's the hair you want to split, so be it. I think my original comment stands just as well if it's amended to "Aren't we trying that already? Citizens United already dramatically relaxed ELECTION SPENDING rules."

Re: We Should Let a Lottery Decide Our Government

#78
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? The issue the heart of Citizens United v. FEC (i.e., the Federal Elections Commission) was whether a non-profit's funding of a TV special criticizing a candidate violated the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act. I guess it's technically true that the decision doesn't allow more money to flow directly to the campaign, and there's not /supposed/ to be coordination with campaigns either (wink wink, nudge nudge), but it…

> The issue the heart of Citizens United v. FEC (i.e., the Federal Elections Commission) was whether a non-profit's funding of a TV special criticizing a candidate violated the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act. In ordinary parlance, do we say “Apple funds iOS” or do we say “Apple makes iOS?” In Citizens United the non-profit produced and sought to air a movie called Hillary: the Movie. They didn’t “fund” any candidate’…

Citizens United v. FEC invalidated laws beyond the specifics of the case. I think your argument is a pedantic one. I'm not a lawyer, but I follow politics more closely than probably 98% of Americans and I've commonly understood Citizens United to be related to what most Americans and the press refer to as "campaign finance", which is more broad than the strict definition you're using.

CU is listed in a Wikipedia section titled "Campaign finance in the United States":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_finance_in_the_United...

To use your own words, in "ordinary parlance" CU is part of campaign finance.

Re: We Should Let a Lottery Decide Our Government

#79
post #32
post #24

What a terrible idea. Being a representative isn't just about beliefs, it requires expertise in statecraft. There are so many better ways to solve the stated problem.

> Being a representative isn't just about beliefs, it requires expertise in statecraft. I suspect you don't live in the United States - or have never watched these representatives in action in their various sessions and places of work, because ... elections are a beauty contest that are simply a reflection of a candidate's ability to campaign, and have nothing to do with the actual ability of the representative to ca…

Usually they have some combination of law practice and/or past governing experience. Most presidential candidates were previously either in Congress or were a governor. Donald Trump being the obvious exception (and we've seen how his erratic and irrational policies have been going, with even members of his own party publicly balking at them). Here's hoping he isn't the start of a trend.

Re: We Should Let a Lottery Decide Our Government

#80
post #21

Be careful what you wish for. Do you really want the policy to reflect popular polling? Really really? Because what the public supports is a mixed bag. Maybe the population will support higher healthcare spending but also greatly restricted immigration policy ... or leaving a beneficial trade-block due to fears of Eastern European immigrants. Contrast this to Switzerland, where we've seen popular anti-immigration mea…

The "tweaking" that you refer to sounds exactly like British immigration policy in the decades preceding the EU referendum. It didn't solve anything, resentment just built up and eventually overflowed. And the end result is far more damaging than it would have been to just listen in the first place.

The problem is that the question was incoherent, just like the recent vote on weapons.

This question was asked in a vacuum, and didn't take into account that it was in direct contradiction with current laws/agreements.

Implementing the immigration law would most likely have meant exiting Schengen and a whole lot of EU things. This should have been made explicit in the vote, not implicit.

I don't even understand how asking such a question is legal when one answer results in the law being incoherent.

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