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The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

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341–350 of 432 posts

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#341
post #114

The solution is simple, and I've proposed it before. If someone used spoofing to break the law, there's strict liability for some kind of statutory damages, say $100, applicable to everyone across the chain. I.e. I can sue Verizon for sending the call to my phone, Verizon can sue whoever connected to their network, they can sue whoever spoofed on their network, etc. This will quickly lead to networks requiring proof…

So if I buy a $20 prepaid cell phone for cash and use it to robocall ten of my friends, they'd share $1000?

Clearly you missed the part where the OP said SPOOFING of numbers.

Spoofing is a huge security issue, robocalling is annoying.

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#342
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone with a heavy background, it would break a fair bit of the PSTN - while moves are in place to change the technical limitations of the PSTN that prevent this kind of verification, they're not complete yet, and will take several more years to implement fully.

PSTN is likely dead soon regardless at present rates. My guess is within 5 years though that may be slightly optimistic. More from defections to other (more spam-averse) technologies. Remaining, if it can still compete with cable, as a data backhaul. Slightly more fleshed out here: https://mastodon.cloud/@dredmorbius/102357651020681668

I think your estimates are highly optimistic, by perhaps upwards of an order of magnitude. I expect the telephone number to be replaced by something else, but the concept itself won't go away.

Don't forget the PSTN, includes cell phones, SMS/MMS, and the entirety of the 911/999/112 systems too. It's not just a POTS line hooked up to a 2500 set anymore.

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#343
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And go to what exactly? There isn't a real alternative out there.

I already see support and customer service offered through WhatsApp or emphasizing chat/email. The switch doesn't have to be frictionless, it just has to be less painful than spam. It doesn't need to happen all at once, either. We're already seeing early adopters walk away from PSTN, so unless they can fix the spam situation before the alternatives hit an inflection point, PSTN is doomed. I'm sure it will live on in…

How does WhatsApp replace 911?

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#344
post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm already there wanting to stop using phone numbers. So. Much. There. I haven't had a "land line" in multiple-decades. My short list of "the next thing" requires: - Ability to install on a mobile device without any connection to a "phone number." Phone numbers in my mind are dead. - Skip the synchronous social convention of calling. Everything should be async by default. You don't ever cause someone's device to int…

> I haven't had a "land line" in multiple-decades. I'd love to have a land line but it completely stopped working decades ago. After deregulation, no one was responsible. Countless attempts to get anyone to fix it were in vain. This year I saw a thick line completely knocked down by a fallen tree. I called the power company. They said it was a telephone line not a power line. And that there wasn't anyone left for the…

Until I moved to my current locale, I had pretty reliable landline service from century link and frontier, I've not tried to order a land line from AT&T yet, but it's theoretically possible.

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#345

I see people here saying that spoofed numbers is the problem. Maybe it's a big part of it, but at the end of the day, the phone companies are complicit with the criminals because there's no good reason that these robocalls can't be treated like a DoS attack. These crooks make millions , of calls every year. My first employer was apparently making robocalls, though none of us were aware of it(there was a call center w…

> because there's no good reason that these robocalls can't be treated like a DoS attack The problem here is that the origin can be spoofed. You are imagining a system where a telco like T-Mobile connects the caller directly to you. That's not how it works. The connection chain could look like this. bad caller 111-1111 -> A -> B -> C -> T-Mobile -> you 999-9999 All T-Mobile knows is that 111-1111 is calling 999-9999…

How do you determine what 111-1111 is? CID? ANI? Some other means?

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#346
post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PSTN is likely dead soon regardless at present rates. My guess is within 5 years though that may be slightly optimistic. More from defections to other (more spam-averse) technologies. Remaining, if it can still compete with cable, as a data backhaul. Slightly more fleshed out here: https://mastodon.cloud/@dredmorbius/102357651020681668

I think your estimates are highly optimistic, by perhaps upwards of an order of magnitude. I expect the telephone number to be replaced by something else, but the concept itself won't go away. Don't forget the PSTN, includes cell phones, SMS/MMS, and the entirety of the 911/999/112 systems too. It's not just a POTS line hooked up to a 2500 set anymore.

My sense is that once critical users/subscribers move elsewhere, the decline will come rapidly.

By "dead", I don't mean PSTN won't exist at all. But its status will be like Usenet or IRC: a system which technically still functions, but is a wasteland of deserted spaces and/or spammers and scammers, while the hub of discussion and commerce is found elsewhere.

There's a tremendous foment of alternative systems, though it's not clear if any one of these will emerge ascendant. It's quite possible that you'll see splits among major usage bases, particularly in business/commerce and/or personal messaging. The usurpation of direct realtime voice comms by texting for many (though certainly not all) uses is also a part of this.

A key point to remember is that once a large network with network effects enters into a death spiral -- positive feedback loop of decreasing value and increasing costs -- the end comes surprisingly quickly. And in both news and conversations I'm having with any number of people and organisations, dissatisfaction with the existing phone system is rampant.

The fact that what most people consider as "phones" are actually relatively general purpose computing, information, and comms devices, on which any arbitrary protocol can be layered, may actually be the kiss of death for PSTN. You won't need to buy a new device, only install a new app (or use the one that's been pushed to your device by the vendor).

For home and office users, the final merger of comms to the desktop (or laptop) system is likely to occur. Some mechanism for patching existing infrastructure to the new system(s) may work for older / hard-wired legacy installations.

What the replacement system offers, its specific capabilities, and how directories are handled, remain interesting questions. There should be both past examples of similar transitions (telegraph and TELEX to voice and computer messaging, particularly) which offer clues. We're probably staring at most of the pieces if not the complete system presently.

When you can't rely on the fact of any arbitrary business, organisation, and/or person having PSTN service through which they can reach you or you them, the end will be well in sight.

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#347

A lot of people point out that telecom companies should do something but aren't because it's lucrative for them or too expensive to fix. Are telecom companies not realizing how much they are hurting themselves with this in the long term? People will stop using phone numbers altogether. Using the phone has become such a pain, at least in the US, that whenever I can, I used different ways of communicating. WhatsApp, iM…

They are indeed hurting their business for short term profits. Due to a number of robocalls I receive, I decided to ignore and block all calls from landline numbers. 99% of landline call I receive, are from robocalls these days. If someone wants to call me with a landline number, they must inform me first and I will store their number on my phone.

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#348

A lot of people point out that telecom companies should do something but aren't because it's lucrative for them or too expensive to fix. Are telecom companies not realizing how much they are hurting themselves with this in the long term? People will stop using phone numbers altogether. Using the phone has become such a pain, at least in the US, that whenever I can, I used different ways of communicating. WhatsApp, iM…

They are slow to act because it is unclear whether it is justified in the law for them to block what they believe is spam or if a customer wants to receive a call. Section 202 of Telecommunications Act details that telecoms cannot discriminate connections so they have been unwilling to block spam if it can lead to breaking the law[1]. The FCC has been trying to change that by rolling out new guidance on what can defi…

While robocalling should be blocked, they need to give consumers power to block their own calls by forwarding the originator information. The CallerID simply allows for deception, but if you provide the originator information and I know the call is coming from a country where I don't know anyone (whether it be the number, a voip address, or a shady phone company) I can preemptively block them adblock/ubo style and share that list collectively with my friends and the internet. Anything short is only going to delay the death of the relevancy of the phone number.

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#349
post #347

A lot of people point out that telecom companies should do something but aren't because it's lucrative for them or too expensive to fix. Are telecom companies not realizing how much they are hurting themselves with this in the long term? People will stop using phone numbers altogether. Using the phone has become such a pain, at least in the US, that whenever I can, I used different ways of communicating. WhatsApp, iM…

They are indeed hurting their business for short term profits. Due to a number of robocalls I receive, I decided to ignore and block all calls from landline numbers. 99% of landline call I receive, are from robocalls these days. If someone wants to call me with a landline number, they must inform me first and I will store their number on my phone.

That's pretty clever, I didn't even consider this as an option. How do you block landlines?

I currently have 'do not disturb' on and whitelist my contacts but it's not ideal.

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#350
post #349
post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are indeed hurting their business for short term profits. Due to a number of robocalls I receive, I decided to ignore and block all calls from landline numbers. 99% of landline call I receive, are from robocalls these days. If someone wants to call me with a landline number, they must inform me first and I will store their number on my phone.

That's pretty clever, I didn't even consider this as an option. How do you block landlines? I currently have 'do not disturb' on and whitelist my contacts but it's not ideal.

In my country, landlines starts with certain code. So I simply ignore and block any number that starts with those code. I hate robocalls. I wish there was a way to reject all calls coming from numbers who aren't on my contact list.
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