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When America Tried to Deport Its Radicals

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Re: When America Tried to Deport Its Radicals

#41

Post by pcwalton »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #39
pcwalton wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I mentioned below, Canada admits more immigrants per capita than the US does, and far more refugees (it surpasses the US in absolute numbers, not even per capita).

That doesn't mean we're not more selective. Numbers per capita say nothing about the selection process, especially when it's far lower in terms of sheer numbers. The refugees we do take in (28k per year is nothing) get a decent amount of support mainly because most of our immigrants are relatively rich Chinese, Indians, Filipinos, etc...

New U.S. immigrants are about as educated as new Canadian immigrants: https://www.cato.org/blog/new-us-immigrants-are-educated-new...

In fact, new U.S. immigrants are a bit more likely to have advanced degrees.

Re: When America Tried to Deport Its Radicals

#42

Post by Mikeb85 »

pcwalton wrote: post #41
Mikeb85 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't mean we're not more selective. Numbers per capita say nothing about the selection process, especially when it's far lower in terms of sheer numbers. The refugees we do take in (28k per year is nothing) get a decent amount of support mainly because most of our immigrants are relatively rich Chinese, Indians, Filipinos, etc...

New U.S. immigrants are about as educated as new Canadian immigrants: https://www.cato.org/blog/new-us-immigrants-are-educated-new... In fact, new U.S. immigrants are a bit more likely to have advanced degrees.

More likely to have advanced degrees but less educated overall.

The US takes in more outliers due to high-paying jobs in SV and on Wall Street, Canada takes in richer immigrants on average. Your own charts reflect that.

Edit - look at Figure 3. 40% of immigrants to Canada have a bachelors or advanced degree. Versus only 29% of US immigrants.

And that doesn't even take into account the fact that many immigrants to Canada come here to go to university (paying more than double what local students pay).

Re: When America Tried to Deport Its Radicals

#43

Post by danharaj »

deogeo wrote: post #29
pjc50 wrote: post #8

This kind of thing is why it's important to challenge the framing of people as "illegal"; citizenship is an administrative category, and abusive governments can find all sorts of excuses to end or revoke it.

> challenge the framing of people as "illegal" A brilliant rhetorical sleight of hand - the people aren't illegal - their act of immigration is. By this logic, we should refer to trespassers as "undocumented guests".

A trespasser is someone who trespasses. You wouldn't call a trespasser an "illegal walker" if they were taking a stroll through your plot of land.

Re: When America Tried to Deport Its Radicals

#44

Post by fzeroracer »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #36
pjc50 wrote: post #8

This kind of thing is why it's important to challenge the framing of people as "illegal"; citizenship is an administrative category, and abusive governments can find all sorts of excuses to end or revoke it.

They committed a crime (crossing a border illegally). What should you call it if not illegal immigration? What do you call robbing a bank? Undocumented withdrawal? No, it's a crime.

People that smoke Marijuana have also committed a crime. As well as people that jaywalk, or violate any of the obscure laws the various states have on the books. They're all criminals, wouldn't you agree?

We should call them illegal citizens. Then we can start working towards deporting such criminals as the article demonstrates.

Re: When America Tried to Deport Its Radicals

#45

Post by ndzig »

fzeroracer wrote: post #44
Mikeb85 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They committed a crime (crossing a border illegally). What should you call it if not illegal immigration? What do you call robbing a bank? Undocumented withdrawal? No, it's a crime.

People that smoke Marijuana have also committed a crime. As well as people that jaywalk, or violate any of the obscure laws the various states have on the books. They're all criminals, wouldn't you agree? We should call them illegal citizens. Then we can start working towards deporting such criminals as the article demonstrates.

They are not citizens. That's like calling a car thief an "illegal owner of a car".

Re: When America Tried to Deport Its Radicals

#46

Post by Mikeb85 »

fzeroracer wrote: post #44
Mikeb85 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They committed a crime (crossing a border illegally). What should you call it if not illegal immigration? What do you call robbing a bank? Undocumented withdrawal? No, it's a crime.

People that smoke Marijuana have also committed a crime. As well as people that jaywalk, or violate any of the obscure laws the various states have on the books. They're all criminals, wouldn't you agree? We should call them illegal citizens. Then we can start working towards deporting such criminals as the article demonstrates.

> We should call them illegal citizens. Then we can start working towards deporting such criminals as the article demonstrates.

Well international law prevents you from making someone stateless so they get thrown in jail instead. But yes, non-citizens who commit crimes are generally deported.

Also, the US classes crimes as either felonies or misdemeanours (possibly more categories?). In Canada we have indictable crimes, summary offences and things like jaywalking aren't even crimes, just ticketable offences. It's disingenuous of you to compare something like jaywalking to actual crimes.

Re: When America Tried to Deport Its Radicals

#47

Post by fzeroracer »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #46
fzeroracer wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People that smoke Marijuana have also committed a crime. As well as people that jaywalk, or violate any of the obscure laws the various states have on the books. They're all criminals, wouldn't you agree? We should call them illegal citizens. Then we can start working towards deporting such criminals as the article demonstrates.

> We should call them illegal citizens. Then we can start working towards deporting such criminals as the article demonstrates. Well international law prevents you from making someone stateless so they get thrown in jail instead. But yes, non-citizens who commit crimes are generally deported. Also, the US classes crimes as either felonies or misdemeanours (possibly more categories?). In Canada we have indictable crim…

International law hasn't stopped the US before. So why bother? We can just deport these illegal citizens to the place that best matches their heritage. Problem solved.

And in the US, jaywalking is a crime. A crime is a crime, which makes jaywalking a crime all the same. If they decided to jaywalk, then they deserve to be deported for their criminal actions.

For reference: Crossing the boarder illegally is a misdemeanor just like jaywalking.

Re: When America Tried to Deport Its Radicals

#48

Post by teh_klev »

toasterlovin wrote: post #30
Aloha wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm skeptical that Canada does better at assimilating, just based on first hand empirical evidence I've seen in Vancouver and Toronto. I would agree that Canada is doing better at lifting people out of poverty currently.

Canada doesn’t do better at lifting people out of poverty. They’re just more selective in who they let in and don’t have a huge second world country at their southern border.

> and don’t have a huge second world country at their southern border.

Some might dispute that claim.

Re: When America Tried to Deport Its Radicals

#49

Post by [deleted] »

danharaj wrote: post #43
deogeo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> challenge the framing of people as "illegal" A brilliant rhetorical sleight of hand - the people aren't illegal - their act of immigration is. By this logic, we should refer to trespassers as "undocumented guests".

A trespasser is someone who trespasses. You wouldn't call a trespasser an "illegal walker" if they were taking a stroll through your plot of land.

[deleted]

Re: When America Tried to Deport Its Radicals

#50

Post by hutzlibu »

"We say that if America has entered the war to make the world safe for democracy, she must first make democracy safe in America. How else is the world to take America seriously, when democracy at home is daily being outraged, free speech suppressed, peaceable assemblies broken up by overbearing and brutal gangsters in uniform; when free press is curtailed and every independent opinion gagged? Verily, poor as we are in democracy, how can we give of it to the world? "

Emma Goldman, one of the deported radicals, wrote this 1917.

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