Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Targeted ads are one of the world's most destructive trends

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 49 posts

Re: Targeted ads are one of the world's most destructive trends

#11

Post by tomrod »

sanxiyn wrote: post #7
catalogia wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may also be the case that the author's first premise is wrong while their later is correct. Perhaps targeted ads do work, and that's why they're bad for our society. You needn't even resort to politics to make this point. There are many things consumers might be persuaded into doing that are contrary to their own interests but profitable to corporations with large advertising budgets. Buying and drinking sugar wat…

Of course this is the correct answer... targeted ads totally work.

Not as well as you'd expect.[0]

[0] https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2367103

Re: Targeted ads are one of the world's most destructive trends

#12

Post by jazzyjackson »

sanxiyn wrote: post #5
largespoon wrote: post #2

I wonder how targeted tracking adds value to businesses in ways other than advertising profits. A large portion of interet users block ads, so what good is the data?

What portion of targeted Facebook ads are blocked?

What portion of facebook apps are scrolled past by people who instinctively ignore "suggested posts" or are otherwise scrolling to find a post that was just there a minute ago?

Once I was looking for an event post to check what time it was at, and ended up scrolling for a while trying to find it, meanwhile thinking about how facebook is getting paid for every ad impression I'm zooming past...

Re: Targeted ads are one of the world's most destructive trends

#13

Post by knzhou »

the_narrator wrote: post #9
satya71 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both can be true simultaneously. Targeted ads work where they reinforce and expand on existing inclinations and beliefs. They don't work so well when you're trying to sell in general or raise awareness of your brand. So someone who was mildly inclined toward right-wind ideas can be made into a alt-right supporter with the right targeted messaging. But when I'm trying to convince someone to buy my expensive gizmo, tar…

I have seen right-wing brought up multiple times, how does the same not apply to the far left?

You're perfectly correct. The advantage of social media, if it exists at all, is symmetric between right and left. The 2008 Obama campaign was universally celebrated in the press for its deft use of social media [0, 1, 2, 3, 4], which included data mining in the style of Cambridge Analytica but at several times the scale, and using that data to hyper-target its message. Strangely, at the time this was universally called the future of democracy, not its end.

0: https://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/10/business/media/10carr.htm...

1: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2008/nov/07/barackoba...

2: https://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2008/11/19/barack-ob...

3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71bH8z6iqSc

4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZmcyHpG31A

Re: Targeted ads are one of the world's most destructive trends

#14

Post by knzhou »

ignoramous wrote: post #10
knzhou wrote: post #3

This article, like many many others, dances between two contradictory narratives. On one hand, it's claimed that targeted advertising just doesn't work, and it's a bunch of pointless, flashy tech which advertisers are wasting their money on. I'm partly sympathetic to this view. But it is simultaneously claimed that targeted ads are so powerful that they are single-handedly responsible for every right-wing political v…

> On one hand, it's claimed that targeted advertising just doesn't work ~snip But it is simultaneously claimed that targeted ads are so powerful that they are single-handedly responsible for every right-wing political victory in the past few years... It is important to distinguish different kinds of ad campaigns here: The former qualifies as product/brand advertisement, whilst the latter is, in fact, propaganda .

And so why is the former consistently portrayed as useless, while the other (targeted in precisely the same way, in fact probably less accurately) is portrayed as literal mind control?

Re: Targeted ads are one of the world's most destructive trends

#15

Post by jazzyjackson »

the_narrator wrote: post #9
satya71 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both can be true simultaneously. Targeted ads work where they reinforce and expand on existing inclinations and beliefs. They don't work so well when you're trying to sell in general or raise awareness of your brand. So someone who was mildly inclined toward right-wind ideas can be made into a alt-right supporter with the right targeted messaging. But when I'm trying to convince someone to buy my expensive gizmo, tar…

I have seen right-wing brought up multiple times, how does the same not apply to the far left?

Because right wingers have higher engagement and are more profitable to target, as outlined in this buzzfeednews piece:

> Several teens and young men who run these sites told BuzzFeed News that they learned the best way to generate traffic is to get their politics stories to spread on Facebook — and the best way to generate shares on Facebook is to publish sensationalist and often false content that caters to Trump supporters. > Earlier in the year, some in Veles experimented with left-leaning or pro–Bernie Sanders content, but nothing performed as well on Facebook as Trump content. > "People in America prefer to read news about Trump," said a Macedonian 16-year-old who operates BVANews.com.

Personally I think it's because right wingers find obviously made up tabloid pieces hilarious and share with their network where as left wingers are more shocked and appalled that someone would lie on the internet.

Re: Targeted ads are one of the world's most destructive trends

#17

Post by joe_the_user »

the_narrator wrote: post #9
satya71 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both can be true simultaneously. Targeted ads work where they reinforce and expand on existing inclinations and beliefs. They don't work so well when you're trying to sell in general or raise awareness of your brand. So someone who was mildly inclined toward right-wind ideas can be made into a alt-right supporter with the right targeted messaging. But when I'm trying to convince someone to buy my expensive gizmo, tar…

I have seen right-wing brought up multiple times, how does the same not apply to the far left?

There are no doubt destructive tendencies on the far left as well (horrible cult-like groups have survived from the 1960s up till now tbh). But there is important way that a particular so of right-wing approach has fed on the current climate.

Imagine, if you will, a fusion of a hate group, a conspiracy theory and a multilevel marketing campaign (and it's not hard given you can see these things in action today). Such tend to be radical, bizarre but not anti-capitalist since they are quite overtly a business (and arguably "right wing" is not almost the best for them but they're seldom left wing 'cause they're businesses).

Re: Targeted ads are one of the world's most destructive trends

#18

Post by tdurden »

jazzyjackson wrote: post #15
the_narrator wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen right-wing brought up multiple times, how does the same not apply to the far left?

Because right wingers have higher engagement and are more profitable to target, as outlined in this buzzfeednews piece: > Several teens and young men who run these sites told BuzzFeed News that they learned the best way to generate traffic is to get their politics stories to spread on Facebook — and the best way to generate shares on Facebook is to publish sensationalist and often false content that caters to Trump s…

> left wingers are more shocked and appalled that someone would lie on the internet.

You have to be kidding

Re: Targeted ads are one of the world's most destructive trends

#19

Post by fizx »

largespoon wrote: post #2

I wonder how targeted tracking adds value to businesses in ways other than advertising profits. A large portion of interet users block ads, so what good is the data?

My brother built a wedding photography business in ~2008. He filled out the entire first summer of bookings with $50 of highly targeted facebook ads (female, engaged, 200mi radius).

The same ads today would be much more competitive, but there's a huge amount of leverage here.

Re: Targeted ads are one of the world's most destructive trends

#20

Post by beerandt »

knzhou wrote: post #13
the_narrator wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen right-wing brought up multiple times, how does the same not apply to the far left?

You're perfectly correct. The advantage of social media, if it exists at all, is symmetric between right and left. The 2008 Obama campaign was universally celebrated in the press for its deft use of social media [0, 1, 2, 3, 4], which included data mining in the style of Cambridge Analytica but at several times the scale, and using that data to hyper-target its message. Strangely, at the time this was universally cal…

It might be somewhat collectively balanced, but I certainly wouldn't call it symmetric.

People don't realize that the Obama campaign and Cambridge Analytica were essentially doing the exact same thing. CA just didn't have explicit permission.

The bigger problem is that Facebook denied everyone else the same inside access that it proactively offered to the Obama campaign. Which is the only reason CA was doing it in the first place.

Post reply on HN