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Elephants Rarely Get Cancer, Now We Know Why (2015)

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Re: Elephants Rarely Get Cancer, Now We Know Why (2015)

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cancers you're thinking of in Tasmanian Devils are the result of a transmissible (!) tumor. The cancerous cells aren't the result of mutations within the animal's body, but instead are introduced into it from another infected animal. As such, genetic therapies are unlikely to have an effect.

As such, genetic therapies are unlikely to have an effect. Can you back that up somehow? That doesn't sound at all right to me. Edit: For the upvote, downvote brigade -- with zero reply so far, but this comment has gone to zero and back to one umpteen times already -- I'm genuinely curious. This isn't some kind of gotcha question. I have a genetic disorder. I have umpteen relatives who have had cancer. I actually hav…

Short answer: Transmissible tumors are fucking weird.

They're less like normal cancers, and more like parasites made of cancerous cells. Moreover, they're not even typical cancer cells -- they're cancer cells which have been dividing (and continuing to mutate) since the disease first came into existence, to the extent that their genetic material has become wildly divergent from that of the host species.

Typical genetic therapies for cancer focus on the hope that enough of the normal apoptotic pathways still exist that the cancer cells can be "convinced" to recognize themselves as cancerous and undergo cell death. In the case of transmissible tumors, though, it's likely that these pathways have been entirely destroyed through selective pressures on the cancer.

Re: Elephants Rarely Get Cancer, Now We Know Why (2015)

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As such, genetic therapies are unlikely to have an effect. Can you back that up somehow? That doesn't sound at all right to me. Edit: For the upvote, downvote brigade -- with zero reply so far, but this comment has gone to zero and back to one umpteen times already -- I'm genuinely curious. This isn't some kind of gotcha question. I have a genetic disorder. I have umpteen relatives who have had cancer. I actually hav…

Short answer: Transmissible tumors are fucking weird . They're less like normal cancers, and more like parasites made of cancerous cells. Moreover, they're not even typical cancer cells -- they're cancer cells which have been dividing (and continuing to mutate) since the disease first came into existence, to the extent that their genetic material has become wildly divergent from that of the host species. Typical gene…

Okay, that makes more sense. Parasites can be an absolute bitch to treat.

Re: Elephants Rarely Get Cancer, Now We Know Why (2015)

#43
post #22

Didn't early humans also rarely get cancer? My understanding is that cancer is one of those things you die from if you don't die at child birth, get eaten by predators, or get the flu, polio, malaria, the plague, etc. That is, the reason cancer is such a big deal in modern times is because other causes of death have been controlled. I don't know much about elephants but I imagine cancer is still low on their list of…

Elephants have roughly as long a lifespan as humans and there are parts of the world where their populations thrive, even in the wild. I don't think dying young is a cause in this case.

Re: Elephants Rarely Get Cancer, Now We Know Why (2015)

#44
post #33

Just a hypothesis I thought of: A lot of cancer cells are developed because of constant background radiation, if you get older you just were exposed to more of it. Elephants have a much higher volume to be affected by it, so just from an evolutionary perspective they had to develop a better resistance. The ones who got cancer early couldn't reproduce as well. Does that make sense? Or does the article say exactly that…

We are not even sure if we need a certain amount of background radiation.

Re: Elephants Rarely Get Cancer, Now We Know Why (2015)

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're talking about genetic therapies that would make cells less prone to mutating into cancerous cells. This would have no effect on cells that are already cancerous, introduced from an outside source.

I read the article. It says this gene actively promotes apoptosis -- cell death -- in defective cells. I mean, I guess it would depend on how you are introducing the gene. How many cells it is getting into. But if it causes defective cells to suicide, why would it matter where the defect is coming from? I don't think we really have a good handle on what causes cancer. I suspect more cancer is due to some infectious a…

>I mean, I guess it would depend on how you are introducing the gene. How many cells it is getting into.

It's cancer. You're trivializing the ultimate source of the problem. If we could ensure universal targeting of cancer cells, we wouldn't need a technically elaborate method of cellular death, like gene modification.

You might as well suggest solving world hunger by just feeding everyone.

Re: Elephants Rarely Get Cancer, Now We Know Why (2015)

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the article. It says this gene actively promotes apoptosis -- cell death -- in defective cells. I mean, I guess it would depend on how you are introducing the gene. How many cells it is getting into. But if it causes defective cells to suicide, why would it matter where the defect is coming from? I don't think we really have a good handle on what causes cancer. I suspect more cancer is due to some infectious a…

>I mean, I guess it would depend on how you are introducing the gene. How many cells it is getting into. It's cancer. You're trivializing the ultimate source of the problem. If we could ensure universal targeting of cancer cells, we wouldn't need a technically elaborate method of cellular death, like gene modification. You might as well suggest solving world hunger by just feeding everyone.

You're trivializing the ultimate source of the problem.

No, I'm not. But it's occurred to me that I'm imagining this as treatment for Tasmanian devils that already have tumors. Maybe other people are envisioning it as a preventative measure.

And maybe that's part of the problem in trying to discuss it.

Re: Elephants Rarely Get Cancer, Now We Know Why (2015)

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the tumor is the cells growing out of control, not some separate thing that acts on the genes of nearby cells. Once cells have mutated into a tumor, it's a bit late to make them less prone to doing so.

The article mentions possibly treating/curing cancer: "He believes there could be a drug that could mimic the effect of p53, or a way to deliver these genes to people at risk of developing cancer, or who already have it to treat or cure the disease."

Method of cellular death doesn't really matter, at this level of discussion of a hypothetical cure. Targeting does. And this strikes me as killing a mosquito with a cannon. If you can ensure universal targeting, there are much easier ways.

Re: Elephants Rarely Get Cancer, Now We Know Why (2015)

#48

"Mouse cells given extra copies of the p53 gene seemed to develop some cancer resistance, he said." I wonder if they could try putting it in to tasmanian devils, which have suffered enormous cancer rates recently.

I live in Tasmania :) That’s a great idea. Also, I advocate to make endangered animals legal to keep as pets. Look how successful cats and dogs are.

You'd have to domesticate them. And then it's a philosophical question of if they're even Tasmanian Devils anymore.

After all, the success of dogs didn't do anything to prevent the near extinction of the wolf.

Re: Elephants Rarely Get Cancer, Now We Know Why (2015)

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As such, genetic therapies are unlikely to have an effect. Can you back that up somehow? That doesn't sound at all right to me. Edit: For the upvote, downvote brigade -- with zero reply so far, but this comment has gone to zero and back to one umpteen times already -- I'm genuinely curious. This isn't some kind of gotcha question. I have a genetic disorder. I have umpteen relatives who have had cancer. I actually hav…

Short answer: Transmissible tumors are fucking weird . They're less like normal cancers, and more like parasites made of cancerous cells. Moreover, they're not even typical cancer cells -- they're cancer cells which have been dividing (and continuing to mutate) since the disease first came into existence, to the extent that their genetic material has become wildly divergent from that of the host species. Typical gene…

Is it just me, or does that description sound unnervingly close to nature having created a Grey Goo scenario?

Re: Elephants Rarely Get Cancer, Now We Know Why (2015)

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Tasmanian devil though??!

Most medium sized, and above, dogs could bite your hand off no problem. Ya’d need to keep them in an enclosure. They breed in captivity fine.[1] I wonder if they could be bred to become house pets. Could take a while. 1. http://theconversation.com/tasmanian-devils-reared-in-captiv...

They are infamously aggressive. There is ongoing debate about the wisdom of keeping extremely aggressive dogs as pets, so the dog comparison isn't really a good rebuttal.
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