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WebKit Goals for 2020

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Re: WebKit Goals for 2020

#81

Post by Carpetsmoker »

Nullabillity wrote: post #62
Carpetsmoker wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine being software developer with a sense of professionalism and dealing with your customers as they are, even if it's annoying a tad bit of extra work, instead of telling them to sod off if they're using a browser you don't like.

Personally the problem is not that I don't like it, but that I have no way to test against it. No, I'm not buying their overpriced crap just to see what they've broken for their users. Even MS has had modern.ie[0] for years. Until then, Safari users are on their own[1]. [0]: https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/tools/v... [1]: https://drewdevault.com/2017/10/26/Fuck-you-nvidia.html

Yeah, I agree with that. But it's one thing to say "sorry, I had no way to test against your browser", but quite another to say "I am going to intentionally break this browser because it's too 'old' by my standards".

You can apply for a free BrowserStack accounts for open source projects btw[1]; it's still a bit of a pain, but better than nothing.

[1]: https://www.browserstack.com/open-source

Re: WebKit Goals for 2020

#82

Post by tannhaeuser »

cjblomqvist wrote: post #77
modeless wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a site I made with a legitimate use of Web Push. https://james.darpinian.com/satellites/

In reply to tannheuser: Follow that logic, there's no need for images either (if you're in the late 90s), since the majority of the really useful content on the web is text... I understand your frustration, but I don't think the solution is to remove functionality from the web.

That doesn't follow logically at all since we don't have to choose between the extremes of allowing sites to push ads, or disallow images altogether (your figure of speech is called the fallacy of the excluded middle in classic logic I believe).

Re: WebKit Goals for 2020

#83

Post by nsomaru »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #35
lwansbrough wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should understand the argument before you form an opinion on it. First of all, there are plenty of us who have legitimate use cases for web push. Second, if you care about being bothered by shitty sites prompting you unprovoked, you have a couple options: content blockers or use different sites. The need for notifications is real and Apple’s choice to exclude their availability in iOS is a business move not a tec…

> There are plenty of us who have legitimate use cases for web push Such as? The only use case for notifications and PWAs I'm coming across are clickbait news sites creating a sense of urgency with "homepage was updated" modals obscuring content and capturing click events. Web user agents have freedoms in rendering pages to users, and Safari siding with users and power efficiency is a good thing. In line with other c…

I run a premium retreat in rural India for which I built a web based portal to act as an “app” for the event.

I don’t have the resources to build native and web applications for each platform.

Right now we make announcements for the next schedule item. I’d like to notify attendees via the web app I wrote and have it display schedule information offline.

Re: WebKit Goals for 2020

#84

Post by nsomaru »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #65
modeless wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a site I made with a legitimate use of Web Push. https://james.darpinian.com/satellites/

Ok, but I hope you can agree that the overwhelming majority of uses is a user-hostile dark pattern in news sites where they put crap onto pages so you click on it to go away, with the intent to generate additional page views and ad play-outs.

You asked for a legitimate use case and are now shifting the goal posts to be about “majority.”

If the web is to improve we need new features and strategies to mitigate the negative effects of the implementation of these features. Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

Re: WebKit Goals for 2020

#85

Post by tmikaeld »

noja wrote: post #60
tmikaeld wrote: post #3

I've been implementing FIDO2 into my serverless application, finally there will be iOS support! It really is the golden authentication method, it's very thought through and incredibly easy to use (unfortunately not to implement though)

Can you recommend something to tie FIDO2 to generic web applications that don't support it directly?

Do you mean like a plugin or API?

FIDO2 is not something you can "paste on" it has to be built-in to the login feature, but I guess for things like Wordpress there are hooks you can use.

I know of no plugins or APIs you can use to add it, I guess if they appear they will be listed on Yubicos list [0] or on Github [1]

[0] https://developers.yubico.com/Software_Projects/FIDO_U2F/U2F... [1] https://github.com/search?q=FIDO2

Important: U2F cannot be used as the only authentication method, unlike FIDO2 which fully replace password & 2-factor.

Re: WebKit Goals for 2020

#87

Post by tannhaeuser »

nsomaru wrote: post #84
tannhaeuser wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but I hope you can agree that the overwhelming majority of uses is a user-hostile dark pattern in news sites where they put crap onto pages so you click on it to go away, with the intent to generate additional page views and ad play-outs.

You asked for a legitimate use case and are now shifting the goal posts to be about “majority.” If the web is to improve we need new features and strategies to mitigate the negative effects of the implementation of these features. Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

New features on "the web" are coming straight from Google to push their monopolist agenda (DoH, URL hiding just to name a few from this past week). Seeing as today's web is bordering on becoming useless (save for a couple enthusiast sites) and net-negative even, only helping autocrats, criminals, surveillance and privacy-invading monopolists rather than users and content creators I'd say we've already thrown out the baby with the bath water, and the "save the web" at all costs narrative needs to go away.

Re: WebKit Goals for 2020

#88

Post by The_rationalist »

arciini wrote: post #73
newscracker wrote: post #9

Will 2020 be the year when WebKit, and the Safari browsers by extension, will have full and proper support for Service Workers and PWAs on par with other browsers? I recall reading that Safari lags behind on it, and the allegation was that Apple prefers native apps and doesn’t want web apps to be more popular.

There's been a lot of talk on this thread about the push notifications aspect. Setting that aside, at Wanderlog ( https://wanderlog.com ), we considered using PWA's and didn't because of another 2 WebKit limitations: storage and fast expiration. We wanted to store pictures of where the user wants to go and cache map tiles offline. Mobile Safari has a limit of 50 MB. This is not enough for these use-cases. Even more a…

Why not choosing Cordova/IONIC? Through it's 4000 native Java plugins it can do all the things a PWA can, and even more.

Re: WebKit Goals for 2020

#90

Post by The_rationalist »

It's fascinating to see how pathetic this roadmap is. The totality (100%) of their planned features are already available on chromium. Guess what, even after that the chromium of today (not 2020) still has an order of magnitude more features, optimisations and testing. In human hours wise, comparing the number of full-time safari developers vs the number of full-time chromium (Google, Microsoft, opera, etc) developers is like comparing a third world country vs the USA GDP. Or more exactly: 217,369 commits vs 835,383 commits!

Apple should just be rational and make the same synergistic move as Microsoft: migrate to chromium. It would save them R&W (reinventing the wheel) money, and they could allocate it to true R&D, allowing the web to move forward for making the world a better place.

If for whatever reason they wanted to opt out of some chromium features such as PWA they could still do it.

With such absurd politics, I wonder how Apple survived through history. Indeed the lack of rationality from the demand must help and irrational supply to thrive.

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