This isn't your father's Microsoft • Hacker News Board

Re: This isn't your father's Microsoft

#51

Post by starpilot » Sat, Nov 09, 2019, 7:03 AM UTC

chewxy wrote: post #39

Tossrock wrote: post #19

I think the pendulum has been swinging from Apple towards Microsoft for developer friendliness for some time now. This is definitely an active strategy on MS's part, and a huge misstep by Apple. Some key parts of the MS strategy: - Embracing Linux. Beyond what's mentioned in the article, there's the Windows Subsystem for Linux, and the new Terminal app. Being able to run Ubuntu (or whichever distribution) natively on…

MS has always been super developer friendly as far as I can remember. The difference was in the past you had to buy into their ecosystem and way of thinking. Once that was done, VS was by far the most superior experience. Now MS embraces a greater variety of developers, not just those who bought in. Anyone remember DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS...? EDIT: found a clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhh_GeBPOhs

How times have changed:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5164635

> Why should I invest in the Microsoft stack? I'm done. Microsoft is no longer a platform I will work on and I will recommend open source products and frameworks from now on.

> The Windows tech hegemony is a graveyard. XNA. Silverlight. WPF. DirectX. Managed C++. C++/CLI. Managed DirectX.

Re: This isn't your father's Microsoft

#52

Post by randomb_1979 » Sat, Nov 09, 2019, 7:09 AM UTC

Tossrock wrote: post #19

I think the pendulum has been swinging from Apple towards Microsoft for developer friendliness for some time now. This is definitely an active strategy on MS's part, and a huge misstep by Apple. Some key parts of the MS strategy: - Embracing Linux. Beyond what's mentioned in the article, there's the Windows Subsystem for Linux, and the new Terminal app. Being able to run Ubuntu (or whichever distribution) natively on…

But I would still endorse Apple over Microsoft until MS shows that it cares about user privacy by publicly distancing themselves from Facebook.

Plus, Apple stuff just works. You still end up being an unpaid IT support for MSFT when you buy Windows machines for your loved ones.

Re: This isn't your father's Microsoft

#53

Post by mrmonkeyman » Sat, Nov 09, 2019, 7:10 AM UTC

jchw wrote: post #8

.NET Core would’ve been really incredible had it come a few years earlier, but I’ve been too busy being enamored by Go and Rust to really consider it more. Still, it is very nice to use when I do use it. I am quite excited by the way it handles async. I had some issues trying to use debuggers under Linux due to licensing... a little bit of “old world” Microsoft? I really don’t care for Windows 10 at all, and make a p…

I don't understand people using VS crap. After all these decades being screwed over you just flock back like a bunch of..

Just shell out some cash to support a proper IDE company like JetBrains.

Re: This isn't your father's Microsoft

#54

Post by yoloClin » Sat, Nov 09, 2019, 7:15 AM UTC

taneq wrote: post #48

yoloClin wrote: post #24

I think there are sections of Microsoft that are very, very good but crappier sections are bringing down company perception somewhat - the company vision is somewhat confused when they drop a cross-platform SQL server and then introduce telementry into Windows. Microsoft Office, if anything, has gone completely backwards in regards to UX. On a fundamental level it 'just works' but when I started becoming more of a po…

The most brain dead thing about Windows, IMO, is that the keyboard selection is tied to locale. You want UK English but using a US keyboard (as you do on a laptop)? Screw you, it’s US spelling or a UK layout.

I find the keyboard layout switching really awkward but for different reasons. On MacOS/Linux, setting the keyboard layout is global - under windows it's per-application and the default is for shift-backtick to switch between layouts which is something I manage to hit pretty frequently.

When I was working on a host where I needed two layouts (US-Dvorak + US-Qwerty for other users) I ended up solving the problem using AutoHotKey to hook all keys and send a different keyevent. It was pretty gross but it bypassed all the issues I was having in a convenient way.

Perhaps you could hook US symbols such as "$" and rebind to UK equivalents with AHK? Alternatively, creating a modified EN-US keyboard layout which has relevant key-symbols would also work / be less hacky, but probably require more effort.

Re: This isn't your father's Microsoft

#55

Post by shaan7 » Sat, Nov 09, 2019, 7:17 AM UTC

chewxy wrote: post #39

Tossrock wrote: post #19

I think the pendulum has been swinging from Apple towards Microsoft for developer friendliness for some time now. This is definitely an active strategy on MS's part, and a huge misstep by Apple. Some key parts of the MS strategy: - Embracing Linux. Beyond what's mentioned in the article, there's the Windows Subsystem for Linux, and the new Terminal app. Being able to run Ubuntu (or whichever distribution) natively on…

MS has always been super developer friendly as far as I can remember. The difference was in the past you had to buy into their ecosystem and way of thinking. Once that was done, VS was by far the most superior experience. Now MS embraces a greater variety of developers, not just those who bought in. Anyone remember DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS...? EDIT: found a clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhh_GeBPOhs

Even better https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gI_HGDgG7c

Re: This isn't your father's Microsoft

#56

Post by aaomidi » Sat, Nov 09, 2019, 7:20 AM UTC

randomb_1979 wrote: post #52

Tossrock wrote: post #19

I think the pendulum has been swinging from Apple towards Microsoft for developer friendliness for some time now. This is definitely an active strategy on MS's part, and a huge misstep by Apple. Some key parts of the MS strategy: - Embracing Linux. Beyond what's mentioned in the article, there's the Windows Subsystem for Linux, and the new Terminal app. Being able to run Ubuntu (or whichever distribution) natively on…

But I would still endorse Apple over Microsoft until MS shows that it cares about user privacy by publicly distancing themselves from Facebook. Plus, Apple stuff just works. You still end up being an unpaid IT support for MSFT when you buy Windows machines for your loved ones.

They care about privacy and still have a massive connection with China?

Idk but if you're willing to break your privacy for one state, what's stopping you from breaking it for another?

Re: This isn't your father's Microsoft

#57

Post by jchw » Sat, Nov 09, 2019, 7:24 AM UTC

jakear wrote: post #29

jchw wrote: post #8

.NET Core would’ve been really incredible had it come a few years earlier, but I’ve been too busy being enamored by Go and Rust to really consider it more. Still, it is very nice to use when I do use it. I am quite excited by the way it handles async. I had some issues trying to use debuggers under Linux due to licensing... a little bit of “old world” Microsoft? I really don’t care for Windows 10 at all, and make a p…

What do you mean by “it’s hard to shake the feeling that maybe something is off”?

Wondering why this bit isn’t open source. Is there really any point? There exists open source VS Code extensions and forks that do basically the same thing. It’s weird for the whole editor to be open source but for this part, admittedly very compelling, to not be. Something is fishy.

Re: This isn't your father's Microsoft

#58

Post by thomasz » Sat, Nov 09, 2019, 7:24 AM UTC

taneq wrote: post #48

yoloClin wrote: post #24

I think there are sections of Microsoft that are very, very good but crappier sections are bringing down company perception somewhat - the company vision is somewhat confused when they drop a cross-platform SQL server and then introduce telementry into Windows. Microsoft Office, if anything, has gone completely backwards in regards to UX. On a fundamental level it 'just works' but when I started becoming more of a po…

The most brain dead thing about Windows, IMO, is that the keyboard selection is tied to locale. You want UK English but using a US keyboard (as you do on a laptop)? Screw you, it’s US spelling or a UK layout.

Huh? I’m using a German keyboard with en-US Windows without problems.

Re: This isn't your father's Microsoft

#59

Post by jchw » Sat, Nov 09, 2019, 7:25 AM UTC

mrmonkeyman wrote: post #53

jchw wrote: post #8

.NET Core would’ve been really incredible had it come a few years earlier, but I’ve been too busy being enamored by Go and Rust to really consider it more. Still, it is very nice to use when I do use it. I am quite excited by the way it handles async. I had some issues trying to use debuggers under Linux due to licensing... a little bit of “old world” Microsoft? I really don’t care for Windows 10 at all, and make a p…

I don't understand people using VS crap. After all these decades being screwed over you just flock back like a bunch of.. Just shell out some cash to support a proper IDE company like JetBrains.

I have a Jetbrains Toolbox subscription.

Re: This isn't your father's Microsoft

#60

Post by telesilla » Sat, Nov 09, 2019, 7:29 AM UTC

awa wrote: post #50

jacobsenscott wrote: post #21

We just got two cheapish windows laptops after many years of not using windows at all. Pros: * Keyboard quality (compared to macbooks) * Low cost * Good physical design if you choose the right brand (thinkpad carbon for example) Cons: * Dark patterns push you hard to connect your account to a skype/xbox/microsoft live/whatever they call it these days account * License key hell is still a thing * Schizophrenic split b…

Doesnt Apple push the same way to connect you apple id to your machine?

It's very avoidable, it only asks on first boot of a new user account.