Netflix, HBO and Cable Giants Are Coming for Password Sharers • Hacker News Board

Re: Netflix, HBO and Cable Giants Are Coming for Password Sharers

#51

Post by ghaff » Fri, Nov 08, 2019, 2:43 PM UTC

mark_l_watson wrote: post #31

koolba wrote: post #5

> But taking more aggressive measures poses risks. The people using services for free — especially younger consumers — may never agree to sign up for a subscription, no matter how many hassles they endure. That means companies would mostly just be alienating paying customers, who could get frustrated and stop using an app or cancel their service. In other words, there’s plenty of downside and possibly little upside.…

re checking request IP address block: is this what NetFlix does, they don’t work through VPNs, even when I set VPN server to USA location. I always turn off my VPN before trying to watch Netflix.

Netflix seems to work through a VPN for me. I sometimes use it when content is geo-restricted.

Re: Netflix, HBO and Cable Giants Are Coming for Password Sharers

#52

Post by DataWorker » Fri, Nov 08, 2019, 2:44 PM UTC

criley2 wrote: post #25

alexfromapex wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporate America has been stealing from us for decades, especially Comcast/Charter.

I forgot that two wrongs make a right, my bad.

You don’t care when huge mega corps steal from your people, but you seem outraged that people might do things like share a video with a friend or spouse. What’s wrong with you?

Re: Netflix, HBO and Cable Giants Are Coming for Password Sharers

#53

Post by reaperducer » Fri, Nov 08, 2019, 2:45 PM UTC

koolba wrote: post #5

> But taking more aggressive measures poses risks. The people using services for free — especially younger consumers — may never agree to sign up for a subscription, no matter how many hassles they endure. That means companies would mostly just be alienating paying customers, who could get frustrated and stop using an app or cancel their service. In other words, there’s plenty of downside and possibly little upside.…

I’m also surprised they haven’t cracked down on the source IP addresses. It’d be trivial to look at the net bandwidth and see that the usage is at a totally different physical address (and not just a mobile phone).

If a steaming company has 70 million customers, how many of those customers move house in a given day? How many change ISP's? How many get new devices? How many take trips?

Suddenly your call center budget doubles and cancellations skyrocket.

Re: Netflix, HBO and Cable Giants Are Coming for Password Sharers

#54

Post by jasonlotito » Fri, Nov 08, 2019, 2:45 PM UTC

maxsilver wrote: post #26

criley2 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entitlement people feel to steal is always surprising. Especially on this board. I understand a lot of reddit is younger and irresponsible so piracy-as-the-norm is a popular trope, but among the engineers whose livelihoods depend on subscription models, we still promote service theft without so much as a hint of shame? If the economics of a service don't make sense to you, then do not subscribe. But to turn aroun…

> The entitlement people feel to steal is always surprising. It's not stealing when you already paid in full . Sharing my Netflix password with my wife and/or child is not stealing , I paid in full for that account, and have now for many many years. My Plex server is full of DVDs and BluRays I paid full retail price for (that's $20 to $30 USD each), it's not stealing to use it, and it's not stealing to let some frien…

> Sharing my Netflix password with my wife and/or child is not stealing

You're right, it's not. And Netflix is fine with this. However, should you be able to share your Netflix username and password with everyone on the block?

Re: Netflix, HBO and Cable Giants Are Coming for Password Sharers

#55

Post by close04 » Fri, Nov 08, 2019, 2:46 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #40

maxsilver wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The entitlement people feel to steal is always surprising. It's not stealing when you already paid in full . Sharing my Netflix password with my wife and/or child is not stealing , I paid in full for that account, and have now for many many years. My Plex server is full of DVDs and BluRays I paid full retail price for (that's $20 to $30 USD each), it's not stealing to use it, and it's not stealing to let some frien…

Wife and child is one thing. But the problem the problem is that people are sharing with people who aren't relatives. Old college roommates from 15 years ago who live on the other side of the country. Coworkers. People they meet in bars. None of these are legitimate. I get the attraction of getting content for free. I used to pirate software when I was young and broke. But I'm an adult now and I do adult things, mean…

I have a premium plan with Netflix which allows me to watch content on 4 screens concurrently, on "laptop, TV, phone and tablet" [0]. It is shared with family members and each one is probably logged into several devices used wherever we may be in the world. Everything is completely within the rules [1]. That's what we pay for and that's how we want to use it.

Any limitation like annoying password resets, strict geofencing, or any move a company makes to tell me how to use the service I pay for and use entirely legally inconvenience me, the paying customer. It will not inconvenience Pirate Joe. Of course none of these inconveniences and limitations would ever come attached to a hefty price drop to make it worth the effort for me.

The entitlement companies feel to inconvenience paying customers for profit is never surprising. Also those "lost revenue" calculations are so massively and intentionally misleading by presuming that every non-paying viewer would turn to a paying one. If your point is based on misdirection it's not much of a point.

[0] https://www.netflix.com/signup/planform

[1] https://help.netflix.com/legal/termsofuse

Re: Netflix, HBO and Cable Giants Are Coming for Password Sharers

#56

Post by magashna » Fri, Nov 08, 2019, 2:46 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #21

magashna wrote: post #9

> “I feel like I’m beating my head against the wall,” Tom Rutledge, the chief executive officer of Charter Communications Inc., said during an earnings call last month. “It’s just too easy to get the product without paying for it.” Boo hoo. All these companies thinking they can split all their content up and get people to pay for every single service are in for a (totally expected) surprise. I'll share my plex server…

I thought everyone wanted content to be split up when it was bundled as a cable package.

Netflix showed how much content you could get for a cheap cost relative to cable. Now everyone company wants to charge the same for their meager library.

Re: Netflix, HBO and Cable Giants Are Coming for Password Sharers

#57

Post by rayiner » Fri, Nov 08, 2019, 2:46 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #49

rayiner wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like that’s a cop-out. I agree that draconian criminal enforcement of what is a civil tort is unwarranted. But do people really see it as a form of civil disobedience, or do they just feel entitled to stuff for free? And if it’s civil disobedience, why not do it in a principled way? Download and share but don’t watch it. I’d liken it more to the looting and vandalism in response to police brutality. More oppor…

I think comparing it to looting and vandalism is a bit hyperbole. It’s closer to copying a book at the library and taking the copy home. No one is deprived of an object or the content when duplicated, they only miss out on whatever revenue they were attempting to capture.

I dislike the book analogy because it puts on the cloak of “sharing learning.” The kinda of things people are pirating are consumer goods—created solely for the purpose of being sold for entertainment. It’s stealing candy, not stealing bread.

Re: Netflix, HBO and Cable Giants Are Coming for Password Sharers

#58

Post by bryanlarsen » Fri, Nov 08, 2019, 2:47 PM UTC

robcohen wrote: post #34

criley2 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entitlement people feel to steal is always surprising. Especially on this board. I understand a lot of reddit is younger and irresponsible so piracy-as-the-norm is a popular trope, but among the engineers whose livelihoods depend on subscription models, we still promote service theft without so much as a hint of shame? If the economics of a service don't make sense to you, then do not subscribe. But to turn aroun…

I think the issue here is that culture should on some level be free. This is why libraries are free. Personally, I want to financially support media creators, but every time I get a forced prereel commercial, or Hulu inserts ads in a service I pay for, I make a mental note to care a little less. Every time I’m region restricted, I make a mental note. Every time my browser widevine plugin breaks and I can’t watch some…

Be careful of what you wish for. Disney is a creator, and soon many people will be paying them money directly, cutting out existing distribution middlemen, letting a single company control a very large portion of American media.

Re: Netflix, HBO and Cable Giants Are Coming for Password Sharers

#59

Post by zelly » Fri, Nov 08, 2019, 2:47 PM UTC

criley2 wrote: post #12

magashna wrote: post #9

> “I feel like I’m beating my head against the wall,” Tom Rutledge, the chief executive officer of Charter Communications Inc., said during an earnings call last month. “It’s just too easy to get the product without paying for it.” Boo hoo. All these companies thinking they can split all their content up and get people to pay for every single service are in for a (totally expected) surprise. I'll share my plex server…

The entitlement people feel to steal is always surprising. Especially on this board. I understand a lot of reddit is younger and irresponsible so piracy-as-the-norm is a popular trope, but among the engineers whose livelihoods depend on subscription models, we still promote service theft without so much as a hint of shame? If the economics of a service don't make sense to you, then do not subscribe. But to turn aroun…

It's not stealing because it's not zero-sum. Nothing is exfiltrated from anyone else's possession. It would be another thing if people were abusing a hack on Netflix directly, impersonating strangers' accounts, using customer service, and increasing their CDN bill. No money is being lost with piracy, only potential money. And not all lost potential money is the same. A coffee shop loses potential money if you barricade the entry, but that's very obviously ethically worse than using the coffee shop's recipe at home 2 cities away and maaybe losing them potential money. Someone losing potential money does not always mean theft occurred. Doubly so for potential money from rent-seeking.

Re: Netflix, HBO and Cable Giants Are Coming for Password Sharers

#60

Post by kranner » Fri, Nov 08, 2019, 2:48 PM UTC

maxsilver wrote: post #26

criley2 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entitlement people feel to steal is always surprising. Especially on this board. I understand a lot of reddit is younger and irresponsible so piracy-as-the-norm is a popular trope, but among the engineers whose livelihoods depend on subscription models, we still promote service theft without so much as a hint of shame? If the economics of a service don't make sense to you, then do not subscribe. But to turn aroun…

> The entitlement people feel to steal is always surprising. It's not stealing when you already paid in full . Sharing my Netflix password with my wife and/or child is not stealing , I paid in full for that account, and have now for many many years. My Plex server is full of DVDs and BluRays I paid full retail price for (that's $20 to $30 USD each), it's not stealing to use it, and it's not stealing to let some frien…

Netflix's terms of use support sharing within the same household. It even has profiles for separate users within the same household.

I don't even know what 'paid in full' means here. It's a specific service with specific terms of use that include not sharing passwords outside one's household. You are free to reject the terms of use and not subscribe to the service. It doesn't make sense to justify breaking some terms just because you don't like them but keep the rest of the service because it's convenient. Would you sign a contract and then break specific clauses just because you didn't like those clauses? The contract is the contract. You choose to give your word to abide.