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Google Open-Sources Cardboard

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Re: Google Open-Sources Cardboard

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is only one component of what can cause nausea or headaches within a VR experience. Please see my reply further down for more detail https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21473859

IPD alignment is adjustable on most headsets nowadays. My experience is anecdotal anyway and I fully accept that some people can't handle it. That said, being on a boat for hours is hardly something we were evolutionarily designed for either, yet no one writes scare mongering articles and posts about that. So you might be doing a disservice with all this worry you're stirring up.

IPD adjustment knobs are there, getting it correctly calibrated for your eyes is still not easy. It takes either a direct messiness with a ruler or a 5-10 minute calibration process in-headset.

And again, motion sickness is by far the least of your worries. My point was "don't just assume nausea is motion sickness". There are other defects that can cause nausea that are not adaptable.

Re: Google Open-Sources Cardboard

#172
post #14

For what it is, Cardboard is pretty cool technology that opens up the VR world to a lot of people that would never be able to afford the high end equipment needed for real VR. I had a couple of cheap Cardboard viewers and then upgraded to the Samsung VR goggles which are also surprisingly good for the money.The Samsung/Oculus partnership seems to still be strong, for now at least.

>The Samsung/Oculus partnership seems to still be strong, for now at least. Gear VR doesn't support Note 10 and there's rumors that their partnership has ended. The VR industry is moving past mobile VR because it has trouble with user retention. Oculus can abandon Gear VR and Samsung to focus on their own VR solutions from Go to Quest to Rift. Samsung then is still working on their standalone headset and possibly a n…

Thanks - I wasn't aware of that.

Re: Google Open-Sources Cardboard

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IPD alignment is adjustable on most headsets nowadays. My experience is anecdotal anyway and I fully accept that some people can't handle it. That said, being on a boat for hours is hardly something we were evolutionarily designed for either, yet no one writes scare mongering articles and posts about that. So you might be doing a disservice with all this worry you're stirring up.

IPD adjustment knobs are there, getting it correctly calibrated for your eyes is still not easy. It takes either a direct messiness with a ruler or a 5-10 minute calibration process in-headset. And again, motion sickness is by far the least of your worries. My point was "don't just assume nausea is motion sickness". There are other defects that can cause nausea that are not adaptable.

> There are other defects that can cause nausea that are not adaptable.

I think you're wrong about that. Any proof?

Re: Google Open-Sources Cardboard

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like Apple and Microsoft really nailed with focusing on AR instead of VR.

I don't agree, for several reasons. First of all, Apple's ARKit (and by extension, Google's ARCore) is not a good experience. It has some "gee whiz" factor to it, and then once you get over it, you realize that there really aren't very many things you can do with it that you can't do better with a smartphone or a VR headset. Case in point: I spent a lot of time at my previous employer working on self-service/guided-r…

I wouldn't think the $1000 price tag would matter much if the technology worked well and was useful.

Re: Google Open-Sources Cardboard

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. That was the point of my comment. Dream doesn't work like cardboard. They're completely different. The Dream headset only connects to specific phones and requires its own driver. Cardboard doesn't work with it at all.

That is not true. Turn off NFC on your phone and it can't scan the internal tag to try to use Daydream. You can then use any cardboard app you want.

Oh! Thanks for the tip! Will try it out!

Re: Google Open-Sources Cardboard

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so we need to either shift to pass-through-camera displays or invent a whole new display technology. Did you miss the recent Five Tilt Kikstarter?[1] It is a new display technology, that I'm eager to try next summer if they manage to deliver. It needs a reflective screen somewhere in the room, so it won't work as mobile; but for anything room based (games, teaching and office stuff) it gets a lot of bullent points…

Tilt Five. No, I didn't miss it, I even backed it and am very excited for it. But it's the retroreflective mat system is not scalable to "wherever you go in the world".

You made me think of portable reflective whiteboards, with foldable stands... :-P

Re: Google Open-Sources Cardboard

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problems from "one IO device to rule them all" standpoint? Sure. Problems for capturing a huge chunk of the market and being generally useful? Not really. > The lack of any outside visibility is a huge problem for families. It is anti-social. Come on. This way you could say most of gaming is antisocial, because a lot of interesting games (most of them, to me) are single-player experience. There are many people, peopl…

I've done experiments in completely audio-based "VR" experiences. I think it's possible and could even be a useful form factor for people. It definitely blurs the line between VR and AR, and I default back to my assertion that the big difference between the two is who is providing the context for the experience: the developer (VR) or the user (AR). From a technology standpoint, the Holy Grail device will be able to d…

> If that is the case, then how is the HoloLens AR?

It doesn't capture the world through the camera and re-render it on the screen.

Re: Google Open-Sources Cardboard

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big piece of missing tech for all add on solutions (daydream, etc) has been 6DoF. Without 6DoF, it's a child's toy.

Daydream has 6DoF support with the appropriate hardware (Mirage etc)

Mirage is a standalone VR system, not an add-on.

Re: Google Open-Sources Cardboard

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've done experiments in completely audio-based "VR" experiences. I think it's possible and could even be a useful form factor for people. It definitely blurs the line between VR and AR, and I default back to my assertion that the big difference between the two is who is providing the context for the experience: the developer (VR) or the user (AR). From a technology standpoint, the Holy Grail device will be able to d…

> If that is the case, then how is the HoloLens AR? It doesn't capture the world through the camera and re-render it on the screen.

That is an arbitrary distinction that I have never heard anyone in the industry make before.

Re: Google Open-Sources Cardboard

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While those techniques are tricks that diminish sickness, they result in an experience that doesn't live up to a traditional gaming experience, but now VR and immersive. For example, Doom VFR only has teleportation movement and it results in an experience that doesn't feel very Doomlike. Instead of blitzing around like a rabbit with a gun, now Doomguy is a magical genie with a gun.

Well, there is "traditional" and then there is "traditional". To start, I think it's a mistake to approach VR application design as "this app, but now VR and immersive", whatever the app may be. It might get better in the future, but for now there are too many compromises for the user to start your design process in that way. VR requires a bottom-up rethink of what you're creating. If all you are creating is "X but i…

> I think FPSes are popular on flat-screens because they specifically aren't realistic.

There is quite a few popular milsim FPSes which kind of favor realism (to a reasonable extent), both in in-game physics (weapon, vehicle and player body behavior simulation) and visual depiction.

I think FPS is popular because this is one of the fundamental genres out there: a depiction of a combat, as perceived by a combatant. This... err... trope has been there since the dawn of men, people imagining themselves fighting. The advent of 3D graphics brought that to computer gaming.

Adventure is another fundamental genre, and I'd disagree that it's niche. See below.

> [...] basically by definition, because if you don't try harder than the other guy, you die, so you have to try your hardest and hope it's enough

I'm sorry but I just don't understand this argument. This applies to every competitive game out there, no matter the genre. If game has this concept when the best performing player wins and other player(s) lose - you have to do your best.

> I've personally found the experience of simulating killing people in real first person view to be psychologically disturbing.

That's a problem unrelated to VR. Although it's somehow aggravated by it, as VR strives for more immersive experience, thus, more realistic depictions of in-game events.

I wonder if you should compare this to airsoft games. They provide a realistic immersive environment (in my perception, immersiveness the primary promise of VR), and they're sort of FPS-in-real-world stuff.

> stand the other people invariably get paired with in public multiplayer

First, I believe this has nothing to do with game presentation layer (like VR or even 3D at all) or genre. Second, there is an awesome solution for this: playing with friends.

As for the genre - I assure you, you can find less than enjoyable opponents in any game genre. Especially strategy games (MOBA/ARTS subgenre, specifically, hehe), but not limited to that.

> If VR could kill off the FPS genre

I don't think that's possible. Again, the advent of 3D graphics brought the genre to computer games, and you can't put the genie back in the bottle. VR - if it becomes mainstream - could transform the genre, but can't kill it. The fundamental idea of a simulated combat as perceived by a combatant is way too high-level concept.

Also, I'd disagree that your "adventure used to be one of the most popular and now it's niche" statement. Adventure genre concepts are still as popular as they always were. Storytelling, exploration, and puzzle solving are key elements of a lot of mainstream games out there. My understanding of what happened is the genre fusion, not a death. A specific UI design patterns (esp. those of point-and-click adventure games) became less popular, but I still wouldn't say they're gone "extremely niche".

> and cut out a huge swath of the most problematic portion of the gaming "community"

I'm sorry but this sounds really weird to me. My understanding is that our world doesn't work this way, so your idea feels strange. It's not like $genre games make people toxic, and if it's gone then those people just vanish off the face of the Earth. If the FPS genre somehow magically disappears, the desire to interact with others would lead them to other pastures.

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