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U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

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Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#551

Post by thundergolfer »

xupybd wrote: post #464
throwaway936482 wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social mobility in the USA is actually much lower than in other developed countries.

It's not the best in the USA but I understand it's not terrible. https://www.oecd.org/centrodemexico/medios/44582910.pdf It's also incredibly complex so perhaps it was a silly thing for me to comment on as I don't think it's that easy to define or measure.

They do measure it though, and the best measurements show that the USA does not compare favourably to other developed nations at all.

I think the line commentators tend to use is “the American Dream is alive and well, in Denmark”

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#552

Post by thundergolfer »

apta wrote: post #258
chimi wrote: post #68

Throughout history, every time loans are invented to pay for something, the price skyrockets. House, Cars, Education... except credit cards. What credit cards did is flatten the salary curve, filling the gap between where salaries should be if they increased as much or more than inflation and the cost of living, with debt. Debt is a powerful tool when used correctly, but most people are unskilled in tool use, financi…

> Throughout history, every time loans are invented to pay for something, the price skyrockets. Which is why interest-bearing loans are prohibited in the three major religions. Puts things into perspective.

Having just read ‘Debt: The First 5000 years’ I don’t think the author contends that price skyrocketing was the reason interest-bearing debt was banned, but I could be wrong.

Do you have a source?

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#553

Post by thundergolfer »

ekianjo wrote: post #274
stefano wrote: post #154

What I find funny in these discussions on HN is how most people seem to be completely oblivious to the obvious solution, proven to work in many developed countries around the world: have the state directly fund universities and don't charge tuition to students (or charge them a small amount). Why is the assumption "universities are private endeavours that should make a profit" something that goes unchallenged on HN?

> have the state directly fund universities and don't charge tuition to students That's how you end up with "Education" being the first cost element of the French budget (about 72 billions EUR per year) despite pretty poor academic results (that can be easily observed in the ever-decreasing level of the national exams). When government manages everything in one field, that field becomes mismanaged (trains: SNCF alway…

Education has been a big public endeavour in France for over a century and until 1980ish they had excellent results.

According to E. D Hirsch in Why Knowledge Matters, the decline in French academic results is attributable to them adopting the individualistic USA model.

Where are you getting the information that the supposedly poor results are because schooling is publicly funded?

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#554

Post by mister_hn »

I still fail to understand why in US the university is so expensive, compared to 99% of universities in Europe. Not even private universities in Europe are so expensive like there, plus there are countries where university is free (e.g. Germany).

Is the American Dream just the one who wants their kids don't go to university because it's so much expensive?

The boomer generation has really broken it. Imagine now that millennials could not send their kids to colleges because of the high tuition fee, connected to low salaries. It's a system that has its destiny doomed and that a day will collapse badly

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#555

Post by warmind99 »

misiti3780 wrote: post #71

As a US citizen, I see the US debt bomb ending it two different ways 1. Sanders/Warren get elected and somehow forgive 1.5 trillion in student loans and make education free going forward. 2. 2008 level crisis with (2) is the more probable I think universities tuition is way too expensive in our country, but I'm against (1) currently because I don't think retroactively forgiving debt is a good policy. The students too…

Hi, quant here (in Uni). I have some obligation to respond to (2), because I know something about it and you've mischaracterized it alot.

We have around $1.5T in student debt currently, at its peak in 2008, there was around $12.7T in housing debt (there's more now, interestingly). Like 2008 era mortgages, student debt is securitized and sold in the form of SLABS (Student Loan Backed AssetS; [1]). However, to my knowledge, there are no derivative securities trades on these SLABS, whereas in 2008, nth derivative securities were trades on mortgage-backed securities (MBSs; when I say nth, I mean derivatives were traded on derivative were traded on derivatives, increasing leverage). In Q2 '08, around 4.5% of mortgages were "seriously deliquent" (i.e. were over 90 days past due). This figure jumped to over 21.0% in July '08 [3]. In contrast, serious delinquency for SLABS is around 0.254% [4]. This is different by a full two orders of magnitude (a little less) from the crisis levels.

While I get why you might be led to believe that (2) is possible, the data doesn't back it up at all. Remember that almost everyone takes out a mortgage, but only around 50% of relatively young people take out student loans.

[1]: https://www.salliemae.com/investors/asset-backed-securities/ [2]: https://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/feds/2008/200859/200859p... (pages 2 and 3, use ctrl+F and "delinquent") [3]: https://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/feds/2008/200859/200859p... (page 5) [4]: https://www.salliemae.com/assets/investors/asset-backed-secu... (page 4; I'm taking this security to be representative, sue me)

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#556

Post by apta »

thundergolfer wrote: post #552
apta wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Throughout history, every time loans are invented to pay for something, the price skyrockets. Which is why interest-bearing loans are prohibited in the three major religions. Puts things into perspective.

Having just read ‘Debt: The First 5000 years’ I don’t think the author contends that price skyrocketing was the reason interest-bearing debt was banned, but I could be wrong. Do you have a source?

It's a natural consequence of such. The main reason is that it is a predatory practice that feeds off of other people in need.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#557

Post by geogra4 »

dredmorbius wrote: post #193
geogra4 wrote: post #10

It's one thing for private universities to cost so much, but there needs to be a tuition free public option.

That exists to some extent in 26 states, though generally at the community college (associates degree, 2 year) level: https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-co...

I've lived in many states in my life and none of them has had that so this is news to me. Still should be some kind of national program I think.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#558

Post by privateSFacct »

Aeolun wrote: post #374
privateSFacct wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is true, you cannot get in without your Hochschulzugangsberechtigung (University Entrance Qualification). Can you name a SINGLE well known major university that does not have this and allows anyone a free education? I will post the requirements here. It is not open to all by any means - their are STRICT quotas.

You are saying you cannot get into university without a high school diploma? That seems fairly common everywhere. It seems pointless to me to give a university education to someone that’s illiterate.

You are not understanding the way free university works.

Your acceptance depends very very significantly on your performance in high school - there are strict cutoffs based on how you did on your abitur, which in turn relates to a series of high stakes exams and earlier tracking in high school (europe has tracking already in high school where entire high schools are different track).

It's not get a high school diploma and go to university for free. To be a vet, a doctor, a lawyer etc - you basically need to track into these positions VERY early. The good news, they limit the number of graduates through these screenings so the jobs on the other end tend to pay pretty well.

A lot of the posters are claiming you get to go to top universities for free to study subjects that lead to good paying jobs without even taking standardized exams etc. This is totally false.

It's actually much easier for joe blow to become a lawyer in the US then in Europe - including going to law school - including the non ABA schools EVEN if they didn't do well in high school. It does cost money though and for many the jobs don't pay what they would expect or hope for.

Seriously, I wish people would name the top universities without cutoffs - they don't exist.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#559

Post by thundergolfer »

apta wrote: post #556
thundergolfer wrote: post #552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having just read ‘Debt: The First 5000 years’ I don’t think the author contends that price skyrocketing was the reason interest-bearing debt was banned, but I could be wrong. Do you have a source?

It's a natural consequence of such. The main reason is that it is a predatory practice that feeds off of other people in need.

> It's a natural...

It is though? Again, do you have a source?

> The main reason is that it is a predatory practice that feeds off of other people in need.

Before it was said that the reason was skyrocketing prices?

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#560

Post by apta »

thundergolfer wrote: post #559
apta wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a natural consequence of such. The main reason is that it is a predatory practice that feeds off of other people in need.

> It's a natural... It is though? Again, do you have a source? > The main reason is that it is a predatory practice that feeds off of other people in need. Before it was said that the reason was skyrocketing prices?

> Before it was said that the reason was skyrocketing prices?

There are several reasons, which may be tightly correlated. You can't deny that interest bearing loans are predatory due to the fact that they feed off the needs of others, some of which are beyond their control. Secondly, because now interest bearing loans are a means of making income (particularly for those with a lot of money), we end up with the cycle where loans are advertised to people, such that people who don't need them are heavily incentivized to get them (e.g. mortgages, credit cards, etc.). We end up in the cycle we see today.

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