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Google Open-Sources Cardboard

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Re: Google Open-Sources Cardboard

#161

Post by mrguyorama »

celticninja wrote: post #122
rosybox wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are pretty large problems. As an outsider it seems that the people bullish on VR think consumers, with respect to these problems you mentioned, will just get over it because of how compelling VR is. It seems obvious to me that they will not get over it. The lack of any outside visibility is a huge problem for families. It is anti-social. Small kids can't be near you while you are using VR. Pets can't really be…

I am probably a key demographic for them tech enthusiast, gamer with disposable income to cover these sorts of purchases, but the motion sickness aspect would need to be non-existent for me to spend any money on one of these.

For many people (me included), the motion sickness aspect IS non-existent.

Re: Google Open-Sources Cardboard

#162

Post by russellbeattie »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #134
russellbeattie wrote: post #35

I spent $69 on a Daydream headset a month or so ago just to play with it, only to find out it didn't work with my phone. I kept it just in case. Then Google cancelled it. It'd be nice if they opened up that code as well...

You should give an Oculus Quest a try if you ever get the opportunity. VR isn't really about the 3D effect it's about having your head and hands tracked in a 3D space and what can come from that level of interaction. Daydream never really offered this and after using a decent amount of VR I find that the most important part of the experience.

Actually, buying the Quest is what made me decide to grab a Dream headset. After playing with WebVR/WebXR demos, I thought wow, I should grab a Dream headset and see what my phone can do. This was at the end of September.

Then I realized it wasn't compatible, but figured I might get a new Pixel when they launched, so I kept it just in case... Whoops.

Re: Google Open-Sources Cardboard

#163

Post by russellbeattie »

moron4hire wrote: post #157
deckar01 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Daydream didn't support 2:1 ratio displays for some reason. Most of Google's own flagship phones moved to that ratio. All they had to do was add black bars to the side to simulate 16:9, but they never did. I actually got Daydream to work by hacking the phone's hardware configuration to trick it into thinking the display was 1920x1080, but it caused the Android Moto launcher to freeze and crash too often. I purchased…

Nobody is making phone-slot-in headsets that are more than just "plastic Google Cardboard" anymore. Both Daydream and Gear VR are out, and there are no other projects in the works. You will not get that headset. Your best bet is to use a Daydream View (hopefully purchased on eBay so you're not paying $70) as a comfortable, well constructed Google Cardboard.

No. That was the point of my comment.

Dream doesn't work like cardboard. They're completely different. The Dream headset only connects to specific phones and requires its own driver. Cardboard doesn't work with it at all.

Re: Google Open-Sources Cardboard

#164

Post by Gaelan »

1propionyl wrote: post #26
Gaelan wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Apple or Microsoft's (released) AR stuff can be used for VR. Apple's ARKit just runs on a phone screen (which obviously isn't AR) and HoloLens doesn't have the field of view to be VR. So they'll probably converge eventually but the products right now solve one or the other, but not both.

> which obviously isn't AR Really? Why not?

My bad, meant to say "obviously isn't VR."

Re: Google Open-Sources Cardboard

#165

Post by OnlineGladiator »

moron4hire wrote: post #150
Animats wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"There's no need to keep a dedicated space for it." That's what John Carmack now says is the argument for VR. It's not about virtual reality. It's about virtual screens . Now, you can have a wide-screen theater experience even if you're in some tiny apartment in Guangdong or San Francisco. And hang out with your friends, even. Think Sunday Night Football, not Doom VR.

Honestly, Carmack is a brilliant engineer and knows a lot about technology, but that isn't enough to make great games or applications. Yes, it's not Doom VR, but I think just replicating TV in VR is not a good enough value prop to warrant the economic, ergonomic, and context-switching costs of VR. VR requires applications that can't be done on flat-screens, just as movies require content that can't be done in books a…

I agree with you that VR is unique and has to create its own type of content, the same way movies were like plays acted out on stage and filmed on camera until they developed into their own medium.

Most of the examples you give though emphasize novelty over utility to me. I agree the Tilt Brush is neat and I think that absolutely has an application, but I think it's similar to MS Paint. MS Paint was a revolutionary program iconic with Windows, but it was a feature attached to the actual product of Windows. Not many people bought Windows just to use MS Paint.

I am still failing to see the actual product case for VR, outside of niche circumstances. Most early adopters I know in the gaming space have largely abandoned it. So far, from an adoption perspective, VR seems like a less successful device than the MS Kinect. The Kinect wildly outsold VR headsets (talking an order of magnitude difference) in the beginning, but then people just sorta stopped using it because they felt it was largely a gimmick.

Most of the stuff you mention is all about potential, and it's wonderful to have believers such as yourself because you are the guys that push to create an industry. But right now VR is still in its infant stages, and personally I feel like it's been around long enough that we'd have some idea if it were going to take off.

I really do hope you're right and I'm wrong and there is a really cool technological medium being developed that will have a great impact on most (or even many) people's lives...but I don't currently believe it.

Re: Google Open-Sources Cardboard

#166

Post by Animats »

OnlineGladiator wrote: post #165
moron4hire wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, Carmack is a brilliant engineer and knows a lot about technology, but that isn't enough to make great games or applications. Yes, it's not Doom VR, but I think just replicating TV in VR is not a good enough value prop to warrant the economic, ergonomic, and context-switching costs of VR. VR requires applications that can't be done on flat-screens, just as movies require content that can't be done in books a…

I agree with you that VR is unique and has to create its own type of content, the same way movies were like plays acted out on stage and filmed on camera until they developed into their own medium. Most of the examples you give though emphasize novelty over utility to me. I agree the Tilt Brush is neat and I think that absolutely has an application, but I think it's similar to MS Paint. MS Paint was a revolutionary p…

But right now VR is still in its infant stages

It's been there for decades. I tried Jaron Lanier's original VR rig in the 1980s. Autodesk's early one around 1990. W Industries somewhere in there. HTC Vibe and Microsoft HoloLens last year. It's fun for a while, but not compelling for long periods.

Except for Beat Saber. That uses VR right. You get to move your body, but you stay locked to the real world reference frame, so it doesn't induce nausea.

Re: Google Open-Sources Cardboard

#167

Post by topmonk »

moron4hire wrote: post #139
topmonk wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called, “getting your VR legs”, akin to sea legs. It worked for me, at least. As an extreme example, I can now play as a character in a space suit, twirling and spinning around for hours, without getting motion sickness. I also regularly play rally racing games where I'm constantly subjected to bumps and jumps, and don't notice it at all. This was after around 100 hours of VR, I think. Actually I've found the ex…

That is only one component of what can cause nausea or headaches within a VR experience. Please see my reply further down for more detail https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21473859

IPD alignment is adjustable on most headsets nowadays. My experience is anecdotal anyway and I fully accept that some people can't handle it.

That said, being on a boat for hours is hardly something we were evolutionarily designed for either, yet no one writes scare mongering articles and posts about that. So you might be doing a disservice with all this worry you're stirring up.

Re: Google Open-Sources Cardboard

#169

Post by OnlineGladiator »

Animats wrote: post #166
OnlineGladiator wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you that VR is unique and has to create its own type of content, the same way movies were like plays acted out on stage and filmed on camera until they developed into their own medium. Most of the examples you give though emphasize novelty over utility to me. I agree the Tilt Brush is neat and I think that absolutely has an application, but I think it's similar to MS Paint. MS Paint was a revolutionary p…

But right now VR is still in its infant stages It's been there for decades. I tried Jaron Lanier's original VR rig in the 1980s. Autodesk's early one around 1990. W Industries somewhere in there. HTC Vibe and Microsoft HoloLens last year. It's fun for a while, but not compelling for long periods. Except for Beat Saber. That uses VR right. You get to move your body, but you stay locked to the real world reference fram…

Beat Saber is great, and it gives me hope that great VR games are possible. The question is, why aren't there more great games like Beat Saber? I realize there are some other games that people like in VR, but practically speaking VR is a one hit wonder in the gaming ecosystem right now.

Valve promised to release 3 big titles by the end of the year, and it's November with no news yet.

https://www.techradar.com/news/half-life-vr-game-could-land-...

The problem I see is that VR adoption is so low there's little incentive for developers to target for it since the development is so expensive. And this in turn means fewer people are excited to buy VR - it's the chicken and egg problem. Facebook was supposed to solve this by throwing gobs of money at studios, but considering how much money they spent that was an absolute failure.

The reason VR isn't taking off is because most people don't find VR worthwhile. What it would take to make it more worthwhile - better technology, better price, better content. I think the tech is 2-3 years away from being good enough for even early adopters. So far people that use VR are mostly hackers, developers, tinkerers - not many of them are really consumers first. I think the price is 5-6 years away from allowing it to transition to mainstream. But the content? Honestly this was what I most excited about years ago, but now I'm beginning to think VR is just a dead end. Yes, there's some cool stuff - but very little of it isn't a gimmick.

Re: Google Open-Sources Cardboard

#170

Post by moron4hire »

russellbeattie wrote: post #163
moron4hire wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is making phone-slot-in headsets that are more than just "plastic Google Cardboard" anymore. Both Daydream and Gear VR are out, and there are no other projects in the works. You will not get that headset. Your best bet is to use a Daydream View (hopefully purchased on eBay so you're not paying $70) as a comfortable, well constructed Google Cardboard.

No. That was the point of my comment. Dream doesn't work like cardboard. They're completely different. The Dream headset only connects to specific phones and requires its own driver. Cardboard doesn't work with it at all.

That is not true. Turn off NFC on your phone and it can't scan the internal tag to try to use Daydream. You can then use any cardboard app you want.
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