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You can fool some of the people, all of the time

economist.com

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Re: You can fool some of the people, all of the time

#11

Post by rebuilder »

jraph wrote: post #5
rihegher wrote: post #2

You can fool 1000 persons one time. You can fool 1 person 1000 times. But you can't fool 1000 persons 1000 times. Some people will know what I'm talking about :), the rest can just downvote this.

Don't let the world not understand your comment ;-) It is a reference to La cité de la peur , a French parodic movie by "Les Nuls". Yes, the title of this post also made me think about it too. I wonder if good translations in other languages exist, but it seems pretty hard to do.

I'm probably missing the point since I don't know the movie, but isn't "You can fool some people some times, but you can't fool all the people all the time", which the article title is riffing on, more or less it?

Re: You can fool some of the people, all of the time

#12

Post by smoll »

If most people are hard-wired to be duped, why does it feel like only recently people are getting even more conspicuously duped by their political leaders (a la Trump and Johnson)? Presumably this effect should have had a more uniformly distributed effect throughout history.

Is it solely due to the weaponization of technology for this means? Or are there other reasons for “why now”?

Re: You can fool some of the people, all of the time

#14

Post by lucian1900 »

smoll wrote: post #12

If most people are hard-wired to be duped, why does it feel like only recently people are getting even more conspicuously duped by their political leaders (a la Trump and Johnson)? Presumably this effect should have had a more uniformly distributed effect throughout history. Is it solely due to the weaponization of technology for this means? Or are there other reasons for “why now”?

It been happening all along, it's just a bit more mask off right now.

It always become more blatant as the contradictions of capitalism intensify and the status quo becomes untenable. You see the same in Western European propaganda from the 30s, particularly in the Weimar Republic.

Re: You can fool some of the people, all of the time

#15

Post by huffmsa »

buboard wrote: post #10

My pet theory is that democracy is more tolerable because it alternates between incompetent people fast enough to keep people's hopes alive.

That's exactly what the US system is supposed to to. Continuous, rapid cycling between small improvements and slightly smaller regressions.

As the Federal bureaucracy grows and as elected politicians stay in office longer the regressions become more severe though.

If it gets bad enough you end up with a massive centralized apparatus which inevitably implodes and takes out the nation it governed with it.

As seen in China every 100-200 years throughout it's history, as seen in the USSR, Rome, etc.

Lots of small sadnesses are always better than one or two big ones (which is the central premise of Nassim Taleb's books)

Re: You can fool some of the people, all of the time

#16

Post by chadcmulligan »

buboard wrote: post #10

My pet theory is that democracy is more tolerable because it alternates between incompetent people fast enough to keep people's hopes alive.

I have a similar theory, the right and the left each get to alternate so we stay sort of in the middle.

Re: You can fool some of the people, all of the time

#17

Post by xwolfi »

buboard wrote: post #10

My pet theory is that democracy is more tolerable because it alternates between incompetent people fast enough to keep people's hopes alive.

Or keep them busy fighting over the captain while the competent rest of the ship stay the course :D

Definitely how I felt in pre-Macron France, where the presidents were just telling idiots impossible dreams why the whole country was managed prudently.

Maybe this time I am the idiot in the demographic targeted by the president, so I feel hopeful again ahaha

Re: You can fool some of the people, all of the time

#18

Post by huffmsa »

smoll wrote: post #12

If most people are hard-wired to be duped, why does it feel like only recently people are getting even more conspicuously duped by their political leaders (a la Trump and Johnson)? Presumably this effect should have had a more uniformly distributed effect throughout history. Is it solely due to the weaponization of technology for this means? Or are there other reasons for “why now”?

It's not increased, we're just more aware of deceptions.

Up until 100 years ago, you could go town to town scamming people and there'd be little cross town communication. Each town would know it had been duped, but you wouldn't know about other towns.

Re: You can fool some of the people, all of the time

#19

Post by huffmsa »

chadcmulligan wrote: post #16
buboard wrote: post #10

My pet theory is that democracy is more tolerable because it alternates between incompetent people fast enough to keep people's hopes alive.

I have a similar theory, the right and the left each get to alternate so we stay sort of in the middle.

Which is the exact reason the system is setup like it is. The federal government is only supposed to take action when it can get two ideological parties to agree on something.

The theory being that if the two sides can find common ground, it's actually a good idea.

Re: You can fool some of the people, all of the time

#20

Post by jplayer01 »

smoll wrote: post #12

If most people are hard-wired to be duped, why does it feel like only recently people are getting even more conspicuously duped by their political leaders (a la Trump and Johnson)? Presumably this effect should have had a more uniformly distributed effect throughout history. Is it solely due to the weaponization of technology for this means? Or are there other reasons for “why now”?

1) Accessibility

2) There's always been some measure of manipulation by political leaders in order to achieve certain goals. Obvious examples are the US in drumming up support for WW2 or the Vietnam war or ... well, any war, really. I don't think anything has really fundamentally changed since the "good old days", except people have realized that they can subvert democracy by just telling people what they want to hear. We have decades of history where you can say something and then do something else entirely, and this is just the natural extension of that. Political leaders, businesses, etc. have realized that there are no consequences for being bad actors, only benefits. Even if they are found out, they can influence the news in ways to make it blow over in a day, or they can tie up courts for years and years if it ever does go there (rare).

All I see is an inexorable march which started decades ago, and it's not going to stop here.

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