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Demoscene guidebook (2018)

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Re: Demoscene guidebook (2018)

#11

Post by onion2k »

DagAgren wrote: post #10
JeanMarcS wrote: post #7

One day I watched a 3D engine demo in a 1KB executable file. It was unbelievable ! With my business partner we always wanted to have time to make one (not even in 1024 bytes, just one) Those guys were (and still are) amazing.

The most important thing to understand here is that these people are NOT actually that amazing! They are a wide spectrum of coders, artists and musicians of widely varying capabilities. What people do have is some very PARTICULAR skillsets. You can pick up those skills too! People will help you out if you ask! You can learn all these tricks if you want to. It takes some effort and inspiration, but it is doable for mo…

It's also important to note that we only see the end result, and not the 100 iterations before that evolved to the final, impressive version. Very few developers could just jump in and code what gets published.

That said, if you watch some Shade Showdown competitions on YouTube you'll see demosceners effectively doing exactly that. It's quite intimidating how good they are.

Re: Demoscene guidebook (2018)

#13

Post by snvzz »

royjacobs wrote: post #6
notkaiho wrote: post #4

The fact that kids barely older than me in the 80s were cranking out stuff that used the C64 to its limits blows my mind. The demoscene is intensely inspiring, if really impenetrable to an outsider.

The best way to penetrate it is to just write a demo! It's fairly certain that it will be terrible, but the point is you tried and you will improve. Hopefully you'll get some pats on the back along the way, inviting you to try again with a second demo, and so it begins...

A demo seems like a seriously high hurdle. Maybe a 4K intro.

Re: Demoscene guidebook (2018)

#16

Post by taneq »

snvzz wrote: post #13
royjacobs wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best way to penetrate it is to just write a demo! It's fairly certain that it will be terrible, but the point is you tried and you will improve. Hopefully you'll get some pats on the back along the way, inviting you to try again with a second demo, and so it begins...

A demo seems like a seriously high hurdle. Maybe a 4K intro.

A 4K intro (a decent one anyway) is much harder than a larger one. "If I had more time I'd write you a shorter letter..."

I found a 256k intro to be a pretty good balance, constrained enough that you don't need a pro-quality art team to look good, but still enough space that you don't have to go too deep into procedural generation and compression.

Re: Demoscene guidebook (2018)

#17

Post by b3lvedere »

_0ffh wrote: post #15
b3lvedere wrote: post #8

This brings back some fun memories. Back in 94 i attended the Assembly in Helsinki, Finland. Amazing people with incredible potential.

That's funny, because so did I! =)

Maybe we saw each other :)

The group i was with reached 5th place with this demo: http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=41739

Re: Demoscene guidebook (2018)

#18

Post by Doctor_Fegg »

ssdsa wrote: post #14

I smiled when I read the word "graphician" in the guidebook. That word doesn't really exist, or rather, it didn't exist until my scene group friend going by the handle OMG https://csdb.dk/scener/?id=2772 at the time invented the word: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=graphician

Indeed: never heard that word when I was coding Amstrad CPC demos in the early 90s.

Re: Demoscene guidebook (2018)

#19

Post by illys »

onion2k wrote: post #11
DagAgren wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most important thing to understand here is that these people are NOT actually that amazing! They are a wide spectrum of coders, artists and musicians of widely varying capabilities. What people do have is some very PARTICULAR skillsets. You can pick up those skills too! People will help you out if you ask! You can learn all these tricks if you want to. It takes some effort and inspiration, but it is doable for mo…

It's also important to note that we only see the end result, and not the 100 iterations before that evolved to the final, impressive version. Very few developers could just jump in and code what gets published. That said, if you watch some Shade Showdown competitions on YouTube you'll see demosceners effectively doing exactly that. It's quite intimidating how good they are.

I think very few people are able to hold with the 100+ iterations of improvement... This persistence and the quality of the result are where they are amazing. Skills can be taught and learnt, but obstinacy is a quality that cannot be developed just by anyone, it is a character trait.

Re: Demoscene guidebook (2018)

#20

Post by snvzz »

taneq wrote: post #16
snvzz wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A demo seems like a seriously high hurdle. Maybe a 4K intro.

A 4K intro (a decent one anyway) is much harder than a larger one. "If I had more time I'd write you a shorter letter..." I found a 256k intro to be a pretty good balance, constrained enough that you don't need a pro-quality art team to look good, but still enough space that you don't have to go too deep into procedural generation and compression.

I find a lowish size limit is a good equalizer. Higher chance to succeed as an individual.

I don't know about 4K vs 256b. A particularly appealing format is amiga bootblock, which is a little under 1K because a signature is needed.

With no limits, you'd be going against large groups with much experience. A new scener stands no chance.

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