Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's twitter and facebook ads in the san francisco bart system and I just don't fucking understand who in SF isn't aware of twitter and facebook or what they're about.
There's a difference between performance and brand marketing. Bart advertising by Twitter/ Facebook is mostly brand marketing (not really tied to anything). A lot of marketing is about reminding you that a company exists.
What do we really know about the effectiveness of digital advertising?
241–250 of 372 posts
Re: What do we really know about the effectiveness of digital advertising?
#242Maybe this is just a generational thing, but I still have never clicked on an ad. I hate ads. I don't know anyone who likes them. I don't know anyone who has intentionally clicked on them. I have literally never met anyone who places any value in advertising at all. Everyone hates it with 100% of their being. It is the garbage we all just sort of accept exposure to as some sort of fee for existing online. Who are all…
The thing is, though, if something is truly new to me, even if it seems like just the thing, I'm not going to buy it without doing market research. It's ingrained in me that anything that is brought to you is almost certainly garbage.
Re: What do we really know about the effectiveness of digital advertising?
#243Earlier quoted context omitted.
How do you separate "people who haven't seen an ad" into a group in Google analytics? I don't believe "organic" source does that, because that means they weren't targeted by the ad in the first place, creating a bias.
Facebook has this exactly this tool, aka Conversion / Brand Lift [1]. It's a real experimentation system, not a "simulated" one like Google's Ghost Ad. [1] https://www.facebook.com/business/help/688346554927374
The flip side is that not every campaign, targeting strategy or ad will be incremental. You have to test and retest your way to it. A blanket assumption won’t work.
Re: What do we really know about the effectiveness of digital advertising?
#244Earlier quoted context omitted.
How do you separate "people who haven't seen an ad" into a group in Google analytics? I don't believe "organic" source does that, because that means they weren't targeted by the ad in the first place, creating a bias.
Off the top of my head, you could do geographic bucketing. Take say 100 cities, and only run ads in 50 of them.
Re: What do we really know about the effectiveness of digital advertising?
#245Great to see an article like this. This subject is almost suspiciously under-researched by journalists. There 's definitely something rotten in the promises that internet advertising has become somehow more effective. If that were true, wouldn't businesses notice? Wouldn't they spend a bigger part of their revenue on ads ? Wouldn't that return even bigger ROIs? Yet businesses spend roughly the same for over a century…
That isn't the best question. Businesses spend stupid money on advertising in the mere hope and faith of grabbing attention. Sites like Google (the actual search engine) are really good at measuring effectiveness because their entire revenue model is built on micro-auctions measured by engagement.
The better question is: If digital advertising were so effective then why couldn't advertising customers contract to ad suppliers a percentage of their ROI for the supplied traffic?
The real answer is that a traffic impression certainly isn't a retail conversion. Those two are completely orthogonal. The hope is that increased total traffic volume suggests greater potential conversion rates, because 1% (assuming 1% of Google traffic converts on your site) of a 1,000,000 new customers from Google is a larger number than 20% of 5000 users from word of mouth marketing (assuming 20% of that higher quality traffic converts).
Unfortunately, this thinking is severely flawed, because traffic consumes resources and customer support that can be monetized as a fractional cost per user that quickly adds up. After consideration of expenses a retail site is likely still better off with the 1,000 (20% of 5,000) converted users from word of mouth marketing than the 10,000 (1% of 1,000,000) converted users from search engine traffic.
These things can be figured out decisively with precise numbers by analyzing past traffic, search engine spend, and conversion rates for any major online brand. Its just a few numbers with some applied calculus reviewing historical trends. Knowing this some business leaders see online advertising through the lens of a crack addict.
The drug addiction of online advertising for a major online brand works something like this:
1. In order to grow an online presence needs more traffic, so they increase marketing spend.
2. Marketing spend will bring traffic, but its expensive and that traffic may not buy anything. We called this dirty traffic.
3. Increased traffic means more eyeballs on the site not generating revenue, so put online advertising on the site so that those freeloaders can at least deliver some value back.
4. Nobody likes online advertising. Online advertising really repulses people, which is a hit to conversion. This hit is measurable.
5. Since conversions per capita nosedive you are pressured as a business leader to make up for the downward trajectory. Fixing the business takes time. Users take their time with purchasing decisions, which is what we called the buying cycle and this is also measurable. Click through on adds brings instant revenue at a substantially lower margin than a user purchasing anything (even really cheap crap). The hope is the difference in the immediacy of the result makes up for the reduced margin, but it won't.
6. By this point there are a couple of things going on. Traffic grows in a short term as marketing campaigns only (there are some rare exceptions) result in short term growth spikes that can dip once the campaign ends. The conversion rate drops and expenses go up. Impatience increases as the business cannot wait for the natural buying cycle to make up the difference on a macro-economic scale when the revenue from ads is instantaneous and predictable. Since ads decrease conversion need more traffic to feed the online ads to make up the difference, which means more marketing spend and further still more dirty traffic reducing the conversion rate.
Its a cycle of death to e-commerce. I can speak to this because I worked as an analyst and brand experiment engineer (A/B tests) for one of the most well known online brands of the last decade that ultimately failed due to a combination of internal conflict from management and over-spending on marketing. The brand still exists, but its now just a white label owned by its former primary competitor.
Re: What do we really know about the effectiveness of digital advertising?
#246Earlier quoted context omitted.
Reliably someone comes along every few months to question digital ads. I always come back to analyses of incrementality as the real proof. Take an audience of X people. Divide them in two. Show ads to your test group, don't show to control. Watch your business grow and gauge the lift between the two audiences. The companies that know how to advertise at scale do this constantly and can gauge the real effect of their…
Acquiring an audiences to divide into a split test is the hard part. It is something that could work for retargeting existing users but doesn't work for acquiring new visitors.
One tool with FB lift tests is to make a lookalike audience. FB will then split that audience in two for you so you have a test and control group.
The original test required two ad accounts and keeping your overall advertising static (not changing anything) for the duration. Today it is much easier and has a lot more features.
Google does a search lift test with YouTube as well. You can run a large set of ads against an audience in YT and google will either suppress them for a subset. Then you can see your overall organic lift based on your video ads.
Re: What do we really know about the effectiveness of digital advertising?
#247Maybe this is just a generational thing, but I still have never clicked on an ad. I hate ads. I don't know anyone who likes them. I don't know anyone who has intentionally clicked on them. I have literally never met anyone who places any value in advertising at all. Everyone hates it with 100% of their being. It is the garbage we all just sort of accept exposure to as some sort of fee for existing online. Who are all…
But, you like accessing content for free, correct? That content doesn't exist and then ads are layered on, the context exists BECAUSE of ads. Like, no one would produce the content without the plan to make their money back via ads. This is how mass media has worked from the get-go. Radio stations were built by advertisers for the purpose of advertising. Entire genres of popular music wouldn't have happened otherwise.…
I don't care what conditions someone wants to put on using their website, per se, and agree they have the right. The problem is, that I can't easily selectively interact with the part of the internet that isn't polluted by unreasonable advertising.
The evil part is the mixing of the unwanted or dangerous ads with the general internet. If it was segregated so you could choose which area you wanted to be in, then it would be genuinely voluntary.
Re: What do we really know about the effectiveness of digital advertising?
#248Earlier quoted context omitted.
Breaking ad blockers, respecting privacy, and the option to essentially white label the service. I see these things coming together to create a unique and value proposition.
How do you define "respecting privacy"?
Re: What do we really know about the effectiveness of digital advertising?
#249How many people here have purchased something solely because they saw an advertisement for it, or how many people do you know who have done that? I can't recall myself ever seeing an ad for something I did not already know of and then spending money on it. Whenever I have found something that I didn't already know and then purchased it, it has been because of word-of-mouth (including online comments), reviews or reco…
From a sidebar ad though? Of course not, and I never will. They do get accidental clicks from me sometimes though.
Re: What do we really know about the effectiveness of digital advertising?
#250Earlier quoted context omitted.
Reliably someone comes along every few months to question digital ads. I always come back to analyses of incrementality as the real proof. Take an audience of X people. Divide them in two. Show ads to your test group, don't show to control. Watch your business grow and gauge the lift between the two audiences. The companies that know how to advertise at scale do this constantly and can gauge the real effect of their…
> Show ads to your test group, don't show to control Which is the wrong experiment to run. The old adage is that 50% of advertising works, you just don't know which part. You need an experiment to prove that ad spending scales with ROI, as ad agencies claim. That may well be completely false.
Incrementality testing isn’t limited to your advertising as a whole - you can get down to very fine detail as long as your experiment is correctly designed and you wait for stat-sig results.