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How California Became America’s Housing Market Nightmare

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131–140 of 170 posts

Re: How California Became America’s Housing Market Nightmare

#131
post #96
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The alternative is that we basically force people out of houses they've bought by gouging them with taxes. That seems much more unfair than the alternative. Oh no! People with a multiple millions in assets have to choose between paying taxes on their immense wealth or selling it! Sarcasm aside, this is how it's done most places in the US. It works just fine in those places and isn't considered unfair. Why is paying…

> Why is paying taxes on your wealth considered unreasonable here? If I buy a painting from a young, unknown artist for $100, for example, and 30 years later the artist is well known and that painting could be sold for $1 million, we don't make me pay taxes on the $999900 my wealth has increased due to owning the painting. Instead, we keep track of what I paid for the painting, and when I eventually do sell it and so…

This is an old old discussion. I'll defer to Churchill who can speak to it far better than I:

> Nothing is more amusing than to watch the efforts of land monopolists to claim that other forms of property and increment are similar in all respects to land and the unearned increment on land. They talk of the increased profits of a doctor or lawyer from the growth of population in the town in which they live. They talk of the profits of a railway, from the growing wealth and activity in the districts through which it runs. They talk of the profits from a rise in stocks and even the profits derived from the sale of works of art.

> But see how misleading and false all those analogies are. The windfalls from the sale of a picture -- a Van Dyke or a Holbein -- may be very considerable. But pictures do not get in anybody's way. They do not lay a toll on anybody's labor; they do not touch enterprise and production; they do not affect the creative processes on which the material well-being of millions depends.

> If a rise in stocks confers profits on the fortunate holders far beyond what they expected or indeed deserved, nevertheless that profit was not reaped by withholding from the community the land which it needs; on the contrary, it was reaped by supplying industry with the capital without which it could not be carried on.

> If a railway makes greater profits it is usually because it carries more goods and more passengers.

> If a doctor or a lawyer enjoys a better practice, it is because the doctor attends more patients and more exacting patients, and because the lawyer pleads more suits in the courts and more important suits.

> At every stage the doctor or the lawyer is giving service in return for his fees.

> Fancy comparing these healthy processes with the enrichment which comes to the landlord who happens to own a plot of land on the outskirts of a great city, who watches the busy population around him making the city larger, richer, more convenient, more famous every day, and all the while sits still and does nothing.

> Roads are made, streets are made, services are improved, electric light turns night into day, water is brought from reservoirs a hundred miles off in the mountains -- and all the while the landlord sits still. Every one of those improvements is effected by the labor and cost of other people and the taxpayers. To not one of those improvements does the land monopolist, as a land monopolist, contribute, and yet by every one of them the value of his land is enhanced. He renders no service to the community, he contributes nothing to the general welfare, he contributes nothing to the process from which his own enrichment is derived.

http://www.landvaluetax.org/current-affairs-comment/winston-...

Re: How California Became America’s Housing Market Nightmare

#132
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a windfall if you live there for 35 years and don't sell. It's just your home.

Make the back taxes due on sale then. Simple.

That would really exacerbate the lock in effect

Re: How California Became America’s Housing Market Nightmare

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're saying that taxes on a 2 million dollar windfall is unfair.

It's not a windfall if you live there for 35 years and don't sell. It's just your home.

Just because it's not a cash asset doesn't mean it's not an asset. There are myriad of financial instruments to work with.

Increased property values translate to increased borrowing power.

Re: How California Became America’s Housing Market Nightmare

#134
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone benefits, not just "boomers". Anyone who buys a house ever gets the same protection. No more than 2% property tax increase/year. So if you bought a house in Silicon Valley for $1.5Million and the house next door sell for $3MM because someone had a lot of cash from their facebook stock, your property tax doesn't double.

If you think that a house bought today will see the same relative increase in value over the next 20 years then yes, you'd be right. I'd argue that seems extremely unlikely for a whole set of reasons but the time will who was right. Note that we're not just talking here about paying lower tax for 1-5 years where the property prices go up, we're talking about taking advantage of this benefit over the course of multipl…

> the same relative increase in value over the next 20 years

Which will just get us what Hong Kong has now

Re: How California Became America’s Housing Market Nightmare

#135
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that buying a house does give you the inalienable right to live there forever (if you so choose). Anything else is basically the elimination of the concept of private property. Kicking people out of their houses is not a sign of a healthy society.

You're confusing the "fee simple" notion of land tenure that we have in the United States with "allodial title" which doesn't happen anywhere anymore because it turns out that's a terrible way to run a society.

I'm not confusing anything, you just don't agree with my position.

Re: How California Became America’s Housing Market Nightmare

#136
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a windfall if you live there for 35 years and don't sell. It's just your home.

Just because it's not a cash asset doesn't mean it's not an asset. There are myriad of financial instruments to work with. Increased property values translate to increased borrowing power.

Why should people be forced to get in debt to keep the house they've already paid for?

Re: How California Became America’s Housing Market Nightmare

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make, this just sounds like a generalization of what I was saying (although not all of California is expensive).

It sounds like you saying that it would be more fair to make them leave by pricing them out so other people can buy their homes.

Pricing property taxes to be consistent with the value of a home is not 'making someone leave'. In this case 'so someone else can buy their home' is actually 'they can decide to sell their house for an enormous profit of twenty times what they bought it for if that is their choice'.

To be clear here, if someone else bought the house, that person would pay the proper property tax, so why is someone's inaction so valuable?

Re: How California Became America’s Housing Market Nightmare

#138
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like these things happened over night. If someone bought a house for 100k and it is now worth two million, I'm not sure they can claim they are being gouged on a 2000% increase of equity. Buying land still doesn't entitle you to be able to perpetually afford to live in one of the most desirable places on earth.

Well. No one is “entitled” to live in California. There are 49 other states in the US. There are also many other cities where the pay vs cost of living makes a lot more sense.

> Well. No one is “entitled” to live in California. There are 49 other states in the US.

Why stop there? Why not deport people to other countries?

Re: How California Became America’s Housing Market Nightmare

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well. No one is “entitled” to live in California. There are 49 other states in the US. There are also many other cities where the pay vs cost of living makes a lot more sense.

> Well. No one is “entitled” to live in California. There are 49 other states in the US. Why stop there? Why not deport people to other countries?

Wow. So now leaving California is like leaving the country? So why stop there? Why not squeeze everyone in California into one city?

Re: How California Became America’s Housing Market Nightmare

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you saying that it would be more fair to make them leave by pricing them out so other people can buy their homes.

Pricing property taxes to be consistent with the value of a home is not 'making someone leave'. In this case 'so someone else can buy their home' is actually 'they can decide to sell their house for an enormous profit of twenty times what they bought it for if that is their choice'. To be clear here, if someone else bought the house, that person would pay the proper property tax, so why is someone's inaction so valua…

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