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Congolese doctor discovered Ebola, but didn't get credit until now

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Re: Congolese doctor discovered Ebola, but didn't get credit until now

#61

Post by emmelaich »

segfaultbuserr wrote: post #23
_carl_jung wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We see the same thing in software. I've heard people answer "Grace Hopper", "Ada Lovelace", "Charles Babbage", "Alan Turing", etc. to the same question about the origin of computers. The real thing is the question needs to be more specific. Is it the origin of programmable computers? The origin of programming itself? The origin of non-programmable computers? And so on. I'm no epidemiologist, but I imagine something s…

> I've heard people answer "Grace Hopper", "Ada Lovelace", "Charles Babbage", "Alan Turing", etc. to the same question about the origin of computers. You forgot Gottfried W. Leibniz. Another question is its historical impacts: did it have any influence on its further development? A good account of history should document and analyze them from different perspectives. You can have the credit of being the "first" even i…

I thought of Leibniz too.

> "In Leibniz's mind, “this language will be the greatest instrument of reason,” for “when there are disputes among persons, we can simply say: Let us calculate, without further ado, and see who is right”"

Re: Congolese doctor discovered Ebola, but didn't get credit until now

#62

Post by init »

rayiner wrote: post #46

> He took blood samples before she died and sent them to Belgium, where they had an electron microscope to try to identify the culprit. Scientists there and in the United States saw this was a new virus that caused hemorrhagic fever. I think the whole thing is more complicated than the article makes it out to be. Clearly, Muyembe should get credit for the field epidemiology and recognizing that this could be somethin…

> But would the Congolese have had electron microscopes but for Belgian colonialism?

Probably yes. Europe and Central Africa were already connected and trading since the 1400's[1]. The kingdom of Kongo sent an ambassador to Vatican in the 1600's[2]. Things would have played out differently if the slave trade in the Americas did not precipitate the downfall of many African kingdoms. The part of Congo where Ebola was discovered would probably not have been called Congo today.

Colonialism's goal was not to trade or bring technological advances but rather to accelerate the exploitation of the continent[3]. Belgian colonialism in particular was vicious at that.[4]

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diogo_C%C3%A3o

[2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emanuele_Ne_Vunda

[3]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Conference

[4]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocities_in_the_Congo_Free_S...

Re: Congolese doctor discovered Ebola, but didn't get credit until now

#63

Post by blotter_paper »

throw_m239339 wrote: post #40
johnmarinelli wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The core of the issue is the problem of colonial mentality. I suppose we would all like to brush it under the rug by saying it's difficult to pin down who really "discovered" Ebola, but I think this only perpetuates and helps internalise colonialism. I think a more clear cut case on the issue how the music industry ripped off Chuck Berry and repackaged him as Elvis Presley. The more we ignore and "justify" the issue…

It has absolutely nothing to do with "colonialism" as an intersectional buzzword. People take credit for other people's discoveries all the time(Edison for instance), and in this article this isn't even the case. The person who actually identified the virus "ebola" isn't the black guy that took blood samples of infected patients. Saying otherwise is rewriting history to fit an intersectional narrative, which is no be…

> The person who actually identified the virus "ebola" isn't the black guy that took blood samples of infected patients.

Ooooh man, your use of a racial descriptor in a generally dismissive sentence doesn't seem neccessary. What would be changed by omitting the word "black" here?

> I'm baffled as to how some people always fall for that old intersectional shtick of claiming there is racism,sexism,colonialism everywhere and in everything, just because someone says so.

I'm not saying this is never overplayed, but have you considered that racism, sexism, and colonialism might actually be more pervasive than you're giving them credit for? Women and black people score lower on math tests when reminded of these categorizatons in a questionaire before the test, while men, white people, and asians score higher (asians get more of a boost than white people). We're all neural networks navigating a complex maze of cultural biases we don't understand, and we internalise some of those biases as we go whether we're aware of it or not. It's difficult.

Re: Congolese doctor discovered Ebola, but didn't get credit until now

#64

Post by jacquesm »

mayneack wrote: post #59

"The Coming Plague" is a book from 1994 that gave him plenty of credit. I read it a long time ago, but definitely remember it talking about him. It focuses on "virus hunters" from the CDC/WHO that tracked down a lot of these emerging diseases in the field. I highly recommend it. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/1995/08/ebola-africa-outbrea... https://www.amazon.com/Coming-Plague-Emerging-Diseases-Balan...

One of the scariest books I've ever read. Still recommended.

Re: Congolese doctor discovered Ebola, but didn't get credit until now

#65

Post by jayalpha »

init wrote: post #62
rayiner wrote: post #46

> He took blood samples before she died and sent them to Belgium, where they had an electron microscope to try to identify the culprit. Scientists there and in the United States saw this was a new virus that caused hemorrhagic fever. I think the whole thing is more complicated than the article makes it out to be. Clearly, Muyembe should get credit for the field epidemiology and recognizing that this could be somethin…

> But would the Congolese have had electron microscopes but for Belgian colonialism? Probably yes. Europe and Central Africa were already connected and trading since the 1400's[1]. The kingdom of Kongo sent an ambassador to Vatican in the 1600's[2]. Things would have played out differently if the slave trade in the Americas did not precipitate the downfall of many African kingdoms. The part of Congo where Ebola was d…

>> But would the Congolese have had electron microscopes but for Belgian colonialism?

> Probably yes.

Probably not, if you understand how "non integrating gap countries" work.

Re: Congolese doctor discovered Ebola, but didn't get credit until now

#67

Post by faned »

blotter_paper wrote: post #63
throw_m239339 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has absolutely nothing to do with "colonialism" as an intersectional buzzword. People take credit for other people's discoveries all the time(Edison for instance), and in this article this isn't even the case. The person who actually identified the virus "ebola" isn't the black guy that took blood samples of infected patients. Saying otherwise is rewriting history to fit an intersectional narrative, which is no be…

> The person who actually identified the virus "ebola" isn't the black guy that took blood samples of infected patients. Ooooh man, your use of a racial descriptor in a generally dismissive sentence doesn't seem neccessary. What would be changed by omitting the word "black" here? > I'm baffled as to how some people always fall for that old intersectional shtick of claiming there is racism,sexism,colonialism everywher…

> Ooooh man, your use of a racial descriptor in a generally dismissive sentence doesn't seem neccessary. What would be changed by omitting the word "black" here?

The article uses “white” twice in nearly identical contexts. It makes perfect sense to respond in kind.

> We're all neural networks navigating a complex maze of cultural biases we don't understand, and we internalise some of those biases as we go whether we're aware of it or not. It's difficult.

I dare say yours might be on display.

Re: Congolese doctor discovered Ebola, but didn't get credit until now

#68

Post by danharaj »

jayalpha wrote: post #65
init wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But would the Congolese have had electron microscopes but for Belgian colonialism? Probably yes. Europe and Central Africa were already connected and trading since the 1400's[1]. The kingdom of Kongo sent an ambassador to Vatican in the 1600's[2]. Things would have played out differently if the slave trade in the Americas did not precipitate the downfall of many African kingdoms. The part of Congo where Ebola was d…

>> But would the Congolese have had electron microscopes but for Belgian colonialism? > Probably yes. Probably not, if you understand how "non integrating gap countries" work.

Do you want to explain?

Re: Congolese doctor discovered Ebola, but didn't get credit until now

#69

Post by dm3730 »

rukittenme wrote: post #57
dm3730 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This article seems to be extremely one-sided. They don't bring up views from the "white scientists" they blame for racism and who helped during the discovery. Which article did you read? Because the article linked in above explicitly provides the views from Peter Piot who admits he wrote out the African researcher and by the way, admits to racism. People with bias or prejudice often have difficulty seeing data that…

> People with bias or prejudice often have difficulty seeing data that contradicts their desired view point. > [The article] explicitly provides the views from Peter Piot who admits he wrote out the African researcher and by the way, admits to racism. Uhhhh.... lol. A strict reading of the article would reveal that Piot never admits to racism (on his part) and admits to no attempt to "write out Muyembe". Piot accuses…

> when you lack the ability to read four sentences.

please reread because I believe you've misread the sentences.

Re: Congolese doctor discovered Ebola, but didn't get credit until now

#70

Post by knolax »

rayiner wrote: post #46

> He took blood samples before she died and sent them to Belgium, where they had an electron microscope to try to identify the culprit. Scientists there and in the United States saw this was a new virus that caused hemorrhagic fever. I think the whole thing is more complicated than the article makes it out to be. Clearly, Muyembe should get credit for the field epidemiology and recognizing that this could be somethin…

> What does Belgium owe in terms of equipping it’s former colony to help themselves?

Payback for the mass forced labor of Congolese to extract rubber? I don't even live in Belgium or the Congo and we learned about atrocities committed under Leopold II in school[0]. In particular Belgian colonial authorities would cut off the hands of those who failed to meet their rubber quota.

> would the Congolese have had electron microscopes but for Belgian colonialism?

If their economic structure wasn't devastated by mass forced labor then yes, they might have been able to afford one. Colonialism presents no benefit to the colonized, under the British Raj "India's share of the world economy declined from 24.4% in 1700 down to 4.2% in 1950"[1]. The United States (since you mention it in your second paragraph implicitly as an example of an advanced nation) itself was founded to oppose the economic crippling that colonial rule necessitates.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocities_in_the_Congo_Free...

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_India

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