How to Steal a Billion • Hacker News Board

Re: How to Steal a Billion

#51

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Nov 06, 2019, 5:10 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #34

CptFribble wrote: post #13

That's the funny thing about Billions-with-a-b: normal thinking about money and value just doesn't work IMO. The Vision Fund is going to lose ~$19 billion. But Masa Son still controls over $80 billion. That's more wealth and power than almost any human being will ever have in history, ever. At that point the numbers don't even matter. Maybe Neumann took Masa Son for $50 billion. Who cares? A person can live in the US…

> Most people out here are sweating medical bills in the low $10,000's, while the news is talking about billions being gained and lost in the span of a few weeks - so fast it makes you wonder if that amount of wealth really even existed in the first place. If people lose confidence in the system because of that it’s because they can’t multiply. Billionaires are very rich compared to middle class people, but there are…

[deleted]

Re: How to Steal a Billion

#52

Post by AlexandrB » Wed, Nov 06, 2019, 5:10 PM UTC

buboard wrote: post #44

JohnFen wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s not as though he hurt anybody. He didn't? He didn't hurt his employees, his investors, his contractors, and so forth? He didn't hurt the the tech space (WeWork is not a tech company, but they're widely perceived to be) by reducing even further what little trust it still has?

did they lay off people? I dont give a toss about investors who don't even know what they 're investing in.

> did they lay people off?

They will as soon as they have enough cash to pay severance: https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/03/wework-layoffs/

Re: How to Steal a Billion

#53

Post by AlexandrB » Wed, Nov 06, 2019, 5:12 PM UTC

buboard wrote: post #35

logfromblammo wrote: post #2

I'd like to think that Adam Neumann will see some manner of ill effect for paying himself $1 billion of other people's money, while delivering negative value, but then reality comes crashing in to remind me that no, he won't. Consequences are for people who don't have a billion dollars.

I don't really understand the hate. He didn't steal it from an old lady behind her back. If that was the case, i can understand the feelings of empathy that it would evoke to people. But capitalizing on some uber-rich person's mistakes? Cry me a river, do you think Mr Softbank cares? Yeah he might drink one cocktail more, but who cares. What if Adam now becomes a great angel investor? Life is like that , all twists a…

> He didn't steal it from an old lady behind her back.

He tried to. Had the IPO gone through it would have fleeced billions from "institutional investors" (i.e. pensions and 401ks).

Re: How to Steal a Billion

#54

Post by bilbo0s » Wed, Nov 06, 2019, 5:13 PM UTC

buboard wrote: post #35

logfromblammo wrote: post #2

I'd like to think that Adam Neumann will see some manner of ill effect for paying himself $1 billion of other people's money, while delivering negative value, but then reality comes crashing in to remind me that no, he won't. Consequences are for people who don't have a billion dollars.

I don't really understand the hate. He didn't steal it from an old lady behind her back. If that was the case, i can understand the feelings of empathy that it would evoke to people. But capitalizing on some uber-rich person's mistakes? Cry me a river, do you think Mr Softbank cares? Yeah he might drink one cocktail more, but who cares. What if Adam now becomes a great angel investor? Life is like that , all twists a…

Not sure I would trust Adam as an angel, that could easily be the first step to an HN post about how your small startup exited at 93 million and you got nothing.

Re: How to Steal a Billion

#55

Post by christiansakai » Wed, Nov 06, 2019, 5:16 PM UTC

CptFribble wrote: post #13

That's the funny thing about Billions-with-a-b: normal thinking about money and value just doesn't work IMO. The Vision Fund is going to lose ~$19 billion. But Masa Son still controls over $80 billion. That's more wealth and power than almost any human being will ever have in history, ever. At that point the numbers don't even matter. Maybe Neumann took Masa Son for $50 billion. Who cares? A person can live in the US…

I am curious on how a person can live in the USA for their whole lives for $3 - 5 million. Serious question.

Re: How to Steal a Billion

#56

Post by wycy » Wed, Nov 06, 2019, 5:16 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #34

CptFribble wrote: post #13

That's the funny thing about Billions-with-a-b: normal thinking about money and value just doesn't work IMO. The Vision Fund is going to lose ~$19 billion. But Masa Son still controls over $80 billion. That's more wealth and power than almost any human being will ever have in history, ever. At that point the numbers don't even matter. Maybe Neumann took Masa Son for $50 billion. Who cares? A person can live in the US…

> Most people out here are sweating medical bills in the low $10,000's, while the news is talking about billions being gained and lost in the span of a few weeks - so fast it makes you wonder if that amount of wealth really even existed in the first place. If people lose confidence in the system because of that it’s because they can’t multiply. Billionaires are very rich compared to middle class people, but there are…

Lost in points like this, where you’re trying to scare people by saying a large number, is that the distinction between a Medicare for All type of system and the current private system is less about how much it costs and much more about who the middleman is.

* In M4A, Americans will pay ~$30T/10yr to providers through the government as a middleman.

* In the current private system, Americans will pay ~$30T/10yr to providers through whichever company their employer has selected as a middleman.

The only cost question re: M4A is whether Americans will spend slightly more or slightly less overall when costs are increased because coverage is extended to 10% more people, and costs are decreased by:

- massive efficiency gains of a single payer,

- elimination of profit to shareholders who siphon money away from care,

- better preventative care that reduces or eliminates more expensive catastrophic care.

And additional intangible benefits like:

- not having your healthcare decided by your employer,

- having the ability to be an entrepreneur and/or start a small business while having the security of healthcare,

- the fact that small business will be able to better compete with huge corporations for desirable employees because they won’t have to offer health benefits themselves.

Re: How to Steal a Billion

#57

Post by blurbleblurble » Wed, Nov 06, 2019, 5:16 PM UTC

shantly wrote: post #47

rayiner wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most people out here are sweating medical bills in the low $10,000's, while the news is talking about billions being gained and lost in the span of a few weeks - so fast it makes you wonder if that amount of wealth really even existed in the first place. If people lose confidence in the system because of that it’s because they can’t multiply. Billionaires are very rich compared to middle class people, but there are…

> If people lose confidence in the system because of that it’s because they can’t multiply. Elizabeth Warren’s new health plan will cost $50 trillion over ten years. Middle class Americans make $8 trillion a year, compared to about $130 billion for America’s billionaires. To anyone who might take this as an indication Warren's plan will increase HC spending, if we do nothing average yearly HC spending for the 2020s i…

People obsessed with "how will we pay for it" just don't understand. The skewed distribution of wealth creates a situation where people don't have time and energy left over from their hustle to take care of themselves and to take care of each other in basic ways. People are sacrificing to the gods of capitalism. Correcting the skewed distribution of wealth would shift agency back to people to mind the business of living life up close, rather than having their life energy extracted.

This is part of a degrowth mindset, and it will freak people out who flee from the shame of not winning, who cannot handle pauses or idle time, who must have control over other peopes' lives. But we can't have those people running this planet into the fire. They're gonna have to learn to be alright.

Re: How to Steal a Billion

#58

Post by projektfu » Wed, Nov 06, 2019, 5:16 PM UTC

sharkmerry wrote: post #43

rayvy wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is posted as a matter of fact, but includes no sources/citations

Its probably true, just cherry picked. Currently healthcare will be 52trill over ten years Warrens plan from two estimates is 52-59 trill over ten years. Billionaire thing seems wrong. Forbes 400 richest americans has 2.96 trillion total between them. Lowest person on the list has networth of 2.8 bill

You’re both right because GP was talking about annual income

Re: How to Steal a Billion

#59

Post by maxerickson » Wed, Nov 06, 2019, 5:18 PM UTC

christiansakai wrote: post #55

CptFribble wrote: post #13

That's the funny thing about Billions-with-a-b: normal thinking about money and value just doesn't work IMO. The Vision Fund is going to lose ~$19 billion. But Masa Son still controls over $80 billion. That's more wealth and power than almost any human being will ever have in history, ever. At that point the numbers don't even matter. Maybe Neumann took Masa Son for $50 billion. Who cares? A person can live in the US…

I am curious on how a person can live in the USA for their whole lives for $3 - 5 million. Serious question.

Cost of living a decent life in much of the country is ~$35000.

And it will be decent for that price if you can just buy a good house and vehicle.

Re: How to Steal a Billion

#60

Post by hermitdev » Wed, Nov 06, 2019, 5:18 PM UTC

UserIsUnused wrote: post #40

neffy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Adding up all the shares that they own, and saying that they have that much money, is completely incorrect. If any of them tried to liquidate even a small part of their shareholding the price would go swiftly to zero.

Bezos does so every year in order to finance blue origin.

Yes, but a little bit every year != all at once. Selling off a bit every year, you can likely find a welcome market. Sell everything at once, the market will tank/disappear or go for an extreme loss. He probably wouldn't even be able to find a buyer(s) if he decided to sell off completely today.