Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Separating gifted children hasn't led to better achievement

hechingerreport.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

381–389 of 389 posts

Re: Separating gifted children hasn't led to better achievement

#381

Post by Nasrudith »

yters wrote: post #348
Nasrudith wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of history was a very different place before advancements outright snapped assumptions in half. Before most of the population was farm laborers and societal hierarchical complexity and knowledge was limited by this. Industrialization was raising pollution and standards of living and making it clear that a lack of education wasn't a healthy option - although partially driven by wrong reasons - paranoid anticathol…

Why do you believe public schooling improves critical thinking?

Compared to nothing on those who try to fill the void? Hell yes. Look at those raised in literal cults for example or among fundamentalists. Now I know these are tripping hazards for ants low goal posts but for once "it could be worse" is pertinent. An education can provide the prerequisites to evaluate and enable it.

Often they do try to put their bullshit in it but their hamhandedness in practice often backfires by adolescence - especially with their own twisted priorities and misrule related discontent.

Re: Separating gifted children hasn't led to better achievement

#382

Post by yters »

Nasrudith wrote: post #381
yters wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you believe public schooling improves critical thinking?

Compared to nothing on those who try to fill the void? Hell yes. Look at those raised in literal cults for example or among fundamentalists. Now I know these are tripping hazards for ants low goal posts but for once "it could be worse" is pertinent. An education can provide the prerequisites to evaluate and enable it. Often they do try to put their bullshit in it but their hamhandedness in practice often backfires by…

Yes, it can help, but do you think public school can provide its own 'cult'?

Re: Separating gifted children hasn't led to better achievement

#383

Post by liability »

nitrogen wrote: post #160
borski wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be careful how you define 'behavioral issues.' I think I know what you mean, but you should more carefully define it; I had plenty of behavioral issues. In fact, I was constantly in trouble for talking too much, not paying attention, being loud, etc. I was bored af. But I wasn't doing drugs or fighting (minus the one or two times), so there's that.

Also need to be careful not to lump the bully and the victim into the same category of "fighting". Both need different interventions.

On the other hand, there will be some fights that defy such classification of the participants. In those circumstances, improperly classifying one participant as the victim and the other as the bully can make the situation worse than it was before.

Re: Separating gifted children hasn't led to better achievement

#384

Post by marcusverus »

jariel wrote: post #323
marcusverus wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is referring to cultural postmodernism, which is a worldview in which objective truth is not to be preferred to the perceived / experienced understanding (i.e. opinion) as to the truth. Especially when considering the socially or economically disadvantaged. So while an adherent to a purely rational worldview might ask, "what the hell do feelings have to do with measuring academic performance?", a postmodernist wou…

Very true, but 'feelings' and 'attitudes' do matter. Kids who 'love math and solving problems' might be considerably more likely to apply themselves, do the work, have the confidence/grit to push a little bit and get through it. Frankly 'attitude' is one of the bigger determinants in so many things. So if we can somehow get kids to 'love math' my gosh this is a materially good outcome.

We agree entirely. Feelings matter for motivation and can underpin performance. But the rational view is that, at the end of the day, you must have an objective measure of performance, devoid of opinion and emotion. The kids' feelings matter when motivating them to perform, but when it comes time to evaluate said performance, feelings cannot matter one wit. If they do, you are no longer measuring performance, you're measuring something else.

Re: Separating gifted children hasn't led to better achievement

#385

Post by spurgu »

borski wrote: post #33
hackerrenews wrote: post #9

I was fourth picked for g&t. First and second pick ended up being quite successful, as did the third picked. One has a high up, prestigious position at Amazon and the other retired from Microsoft wealthy. Me, I smoke weed and that’s about the only thing I’ve really done consistently since high school.. more consistently than music, and programming, even. Frankly, I wish I had been better separated from the other kids…

Amen to this. I was separated (went to Stuyvesant HS in NYC) and it made a world of difference for me, as compared to JHS or elementary school. Prior to Stuy, I was bullied like crazy, beaten, and it was very difficult to try and fit in with many of the others around me who, frankly, just didn't give a fuck . It really sucked. Stuy was a different world, and the first time in my life I felt the opportunity to actuall…

Reading this and the parent post makes me think that prisons are actually kind of like elementary school except for adults. Same kind of bullying, establishing pecking order, repercussions of snitching etc. Although a lot more dangerous/scary.

Re: Separating gifted children hasn't led to better achievement

#386

Post by varjag »

yters wrote: post #377
varjag wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of history was pretty bad.

On what do you base that claim? Some say other periods and places were much more idyllic than our current state.

I had a history class in school? No period sticks out even remotely comparable to modernity by any metric: violent deaths per capita, general life expectancy, education, leisure time available..

Re: Separating gifted children hasn't led to better achievement

#387

Post by yters »

varjag wrote: post #386
yters wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On what do you base that claim? Some say other periods and places were much more idyllic than our current state.

I had a history class in school? No period sticks out even remotely comparable to modernity by any metric: violent deaths per capita, general life expectancy, education, leisure time available..

If some future historian were to look at the 20th century he would observe a huge amount of violence and death dwarfing anything that came before. I am not certain the modern age is altogether superior.

Re: Separating gifted children hasn't led to better achievement

#388

Post by Kaiyou »

scarface74 wrote: post #286
Kaiyou wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost like intelligence is inheritable. Fascinating.

Let me tell you a little story. My step son didn’t make the cut off for the ACT to get into the college he wanted. Ten weeks and a $1000 later after paying for ten sessions with a college professor for a test prep course, he raised is score high enough to get in. Did he get “more intelligent” during those ten weeks? When I left my private elementary school in the south and my mom who was teacher didn’t want me to go…

It's possible to go a long way if you throw resources at underperforming students. Another method of going a long way is cheating. Neither affect your intelligence positively.

However, I have no reason to believe one of those two factors is at place when looking at the top ten students of a given school. With cheating you don't aim for the top, to make it easier for your cheating to remain undiscovered and there's no point to invest lots of resources into a student that isn't failing, since there's nothing to gain, at least from my perspective. Or is there a cash price tied be being in the top ten?

Re: Separating gifted children hasn't led to better achievement

#389

Post by [deleted] »

yters wrote: post #387
varjag wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a history class in school? No period sticks out even remotely comparable to modernity by any metric: violent deaths per capita, general life expectancy, education, leisure time available..

If some future historian were to look at the 20th century he would observe a huge amount of violence and death dwarfing anything that came before. I am not certain the modern age is altogether superior.

[deleted]
Post reply on HN