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Glyphosate in Organic Hydroponic Food Production

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Re: Glyphosate in Organic Hydroponic Food Production

#41

Post by mc32 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #36
amadeusw wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right that the organic designation is about completely avoiding the usage of certain substances. The article refers to this idea towards the end: >As the soil becomes compacted and soaked with agrichemicals, the delicate microbiome of the soil is destroyed. The whole point of growing organically is to ensure this planet stays healthy and chemical-free.

> The whole point of growing organically is to ensure this planet stays healthy and chemical-free. The planet is entirely made of chemicals, it can't be made chemical-free and, even if it could, that wouldn't be healthy.

I guess they the proponents kinda mean that (agricultural) chemicals be near their natural concentrations in arable lands. So there are going to be chemicals naturally, and harmful ones, but in normal non/not very harmful to humans concentrations. And of course earth is made of chemicals and “organic” chemicals (gotta use quotes so as to not confuse with organic chemistry) are also harmful (if they were not, they’d be of little use against pests).

Re: Glyphosate in Organic Hydroponic Food Production

#42

Post by crankylinuxuser »

dragonwriter wrote: post #36
amadeusw wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right that the organic designation is about completely avoiding the usage of certain substances. The article refers to this idea towards the end: >As the soil becomes compacted and soaked with agrichemicals, the delicate microbiome of the soil is destroyed. The whole point of growing organically is to ensure this planet stays healthy and chemical-free.

> The whole point of growing organically is to ensure this planet stays healthy and chemical-free. The planet is entirely made of chemicals, it can't be made chemical-free and, even if it could, that wouldn't be healthy.

Then lets use some better terms.

Petrochemicals and derivatives aren't good for the land. It depletes various types of long-accrued chemicals and biological structures that make it healthy.

Neonicotinoids and similar neurotoxins are bad for myriad life in the vicinity where these chemicals are deposited or sprayed.

If it ain't EM, strong, weak, or gravity, it's chemicals. But there's a whole slew of really nasty shit we humans have created that is devastating on the ecology. Some are damn near permanent, others mess with endocrine systems, others cause cancer of everything.. Probably a good idea to keep the bulk of these away unless we reallllly know what we're doing. And considering the usual reason is "to make a buck", we're selling our future selves really short, and we ain't asking them.

Re: Glyphosate in Organic Hydroponic Food Production

#43

Post by tinix »

peterwwillis wrote: post #17

This article makes zero sense. It's about hydroponics - growing plants in water, without soil. But it's complaining about spraying the ground that a greenhouse is built on top of. Am I missing something, or is glyphosate going into the ground, and the plants are never touching the ground?

Pretty much, that's how I read it too. This has nothing to do with glyphosate being on the hydroponic crops.

It says it right there in the article:

> This is all because the USDA does not consider spraying toxic herbicides like glyphosate on the soil immediately prior to inspection to be a disqualifier for organic certification.

> According to Jennifer, because the plant itself is not being exposed to prohibited substances like glyphosate, spraying the ground with herbicides the week before organic certification is 100% legal.

Re: Glyphosate in Organic Hydroponic Food Production

#45

Post by chimi »

tptacek wrote: post #29

I don't have an opinion for or against use of glyphosate with "organic" food and share the general cynicism of the thread about the "organic" label. But this site has a strong position on glyphosate (in accepting the premise that it is a "probable human carcinogen"), which is worth staying aware of. That position is probably totally reasonable for their audience, but keep in mind that it's automatically being reconte…

The site is not credible. This is not news, it's propaganda. The article doesn't belong here. It's just provocation designed to make amazon affiliate money.

For example, the article says:

> For those of you who don’t know – anything that touches the soil eventually gets taken up by the plant. It becomes apart of the plants tissues and DNA. It is unavoidable.

The point of hydroponic farming is the plants don't touch the soil. They don't take anything out of the soil at all. Glyphosate does not become part of a plant's DNA.

Edit: Down votes why?

It's an anti-vax website for crying out loud:

https://livelovefruit.com/still-vaccinating-25-questions-for...

Re: Glyphosate in Organic Hydroponic Food Production

#46

Post by refurb »

dragonwriter wrote: post #37
cwojno wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Organic is a marketing term created by organic companies. Growing things without herbicides and pesticides is very difficult.

> Growing things without herbicides and pesticides is very difficult. And not what organic aspires to, anyway, it just involves a fairly arbitrary set of exclusions as to which pesticides are used, which exclusions have no particular correspondence to either human health or environmental sustainability. “Organic” is largely marketing, but what the marketing appeals to is woo to start with.

It’s more than marketing in the sense that certain pesticides are excluded for their toxicity.

That said, the list of allowable, synthetic organic pesticides is pretty damn long.[1]

[1] http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&SID=9874504b6f10...

Re: Glyphosate in Organic Hydroponic Food Production

#47

Post by [deleted] »

fortran77 wrote: post #10
koolba wrote: post #2

> NOP argues that because glyphosate does not “touch” the plants being certified, it is technically still “organic.” If that’s not the craziest assumption I’ve heard in regards to organic food production, I don’t know what is. For those of you who don’t know – anything that touches the soil eventually gets taken up by the plant. It becomes apart of the plants tissues and DNA. It is unavoidable. IIUC, they’re spraying…

How does it become part of the "DNA"? How does that work?

[deleted]

Re: Glyphosate in Organic Hydroponic Food Production

#48

Post by pergadad »

tptacek wrote: post #29

I don't have an opinion for or against use of glyphosate with "organic" food and share the general cynicism of the thread about the "organic" label. But this site has a strong position on glyphosate (in accepting the premise that it is a "probable human carcinogen"), which is worth staying aware of. That position is probably totally reasonable for their audience, but keep in mind that it's automatically being reconte…

There is no doubt that it's a carcinogen, just some questions about how strongly and at what kinds of exposure.

IARC has an easier decision than most national regulators as they only look at the science. National regulators have to balance the science with the political/economic reality that glyphosate plays. Some countries have nonetheless chosen to prohibit it's use, others not.

So the question is not at all whether it's a carcinogen, rather it's this: Should we prohibit it's use or certain especially dangerous use cases, given that much of Western agriculture has become dependent on it?

Re: Glyphosate in Organic Hydroponic Food Production

#49

Post by zephix »

chimi wrote: post #45
tptacek wrote: post #29

I don't have an opinion for or against use of glyphosate with "organic" food and share the general cynicism of the thread about the "organic" label. But this site has a strong position on glyphosate (in accepting the premise that it is a "probable human carcinogen"), which is worth staying aware of. That position is probably totally reasonable for their audience, but keep in mind that it's automatically being reconte…

The site is not credible. This is not news, it's propaganda. The article doesn't belong here. It's just provocation designed to make amazon affiliate money. For example, the article says: > For those of you who don’t know – anything that touches the soil eventually gets taken up by the plant. It becomes apart of the plants tissues and DNA. It is unavoidable. The point of hydroponic farming is the plants don't touch t…

Not to mention that the article invalidates itself with the update at the top. There is no story here. Alas, people will probably flag your post to death. smh

Re: Glyphosate in Organic Hydroponic Food Production

#50

Post by zaarn »

pergadad wrote: post #48
tptacek wrote: post #29

I don't have an opinion for or against use of glyphosate with "organic" food and share the general cynicism of the thread about the "organic" label. But this site has a strong position on glyphosate (in accepting the premise that it is a "probable human carcinogen"), which is worth staying aware of. That position is probably totally reasonable for their audience, but keep in mind that it's automatically being reconte…

There is no doubt that it's a carcinogen, just some questions about how strongly and at what kinds of exposure. IARC has an easier decision than most national regulators as they only look at the science. National regulators have to balance the science with the political/economic reality that glyphosate plays. Some countries have nonetheless chosen to prohibit it's use, others not. So the question is not at all whethe…

On the flipside, the WHO, FAOJC and ECHA (as well as the canadian, australian and german safety bodies) didn't find there to be sufficient evidence that Glyphosate is a carcinogen or dangerous in the dosages you'll be exposed to.

The IARC is actually the only international scientific organization that has actually classed glyphosate as carcinogen (based on including a few studies that the other bodies do not include to avoid bias).

Of course, eating Glyphosate isn't exactly healthy, it's a pesticide after all and not quite exactly designed to be consumed by anything but it's all about the dosage.

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