Organic certifiers have differing standards. Given the continued demand for organic — even Walmart is bullish on it these days — unscrupulous certifiers like the USDA will cut corners. In response, great certifiers like CCOF (https://ccof.org/) and Oregon Tilth (https://tilth.org/), which would never allow the use of glyphosate, will seek to distinguish themselves from the pack.
Glyphosate in Organic Hydroponic Food Production
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Re: Glyphosate in Organic Hydroponic Food Production
#22At least, when I am purchasing "Organic" products, I would expect to use the least or zero amount of pesticide/herbicide/etc. in the growth of the "organic" plants and animals. If the article is showing the truth, it feels like those companies are cheating the consumers who are paying for that premium product. It's also unfortunate that there are certifications companies that are either created or "cooped" by compani…
Kurzgesagt has a pretty great video[0] about organic food, and goes a little bit into what the definition of "organic" means. Digging through his citations[1] (which is awesome, btw), as far as American legal definitions and pesticides and the whatnot are concerned, the relevant law[2] says that pest and disease problems can be controlled using "non-synthetic controls, such as...repellents", meaning that pesticides can be used, as long as they're also "organic" (which, he notes later in the video, there are slightly less, but still non-zero traces of, and not necessarily safer[3])
That being said, there really shouldn't be a worry about traces of "chemicals" on organic OR non-organic produce, as the FDA has very strict guide lines and testing procedures that produce sellers go through[4] before sending out produce that almost everyone is well under.
[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PmM6SUn7Es [1]: https://sites.google.com/view/sourcesorganic/ [2]: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/7/205.206 [3]: https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.aces.illinoi... [4]: https://www.ams.usda.gov/datasets/pdp/pdpdata
Re: Glyphosate in Organic Hydroponic Food Production
#23The specific bit where it is allowed on hydroponic farms:
> glyphosate (an incredibly toxic herbicide that is absolutely prohibited on organic farms) is being sprayed on fields prior to constructing hydroponic greenhouses awaiting organic certification. This is done to remove weeds from the greenhouses.
Re: Glyphosate in Organic Hydroponic Food Production
#24The buried lede here is that "organic", as applied to food is itself a meaningless concept. It's just an ersatz religious practice. What assurance is there that no glyphosate particles have found their way onto your artisanal apple grown in zebu manure?
Some of us who purchase organic foods don't care about the impact on the food, but rather on the farm ecosystem. Pesticides, herbicides, and fertilizers impact insect popuations, wash into rivers, and so on. It's nice to have an option to vote with our dollars in favour of more sustainable practices, even if the food isn't any healthier or tastier to eat.
Re: Glyphosate in Organic Hydroponic Food Production
#25The title is misleading. The Glyphosate is used in the soil BEFORE the greenhouse is built. This prevent weeds to break the greenhouse plastics. But is not administered to the final product that goes to the final consumer.
Where do the potatos grow? Same soil isnt it? Isnt this a childish way to argue about it?
Re: Glyphosate in Organic Hydroponic Food Production
#26The article has an update at the top that references this USDA memo [1] that summarizes the regulation. I'm not sure how much of the article is invalid as a result, but it seems to make claims that are directly refuted by the memo dated 6 months before the article was published. [1]: https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/2019-Cert...
Yeah. It certainly appears to invalidate the entire article.
Re: Glyphosate in Organic Hydroponic Food Production
#27The buried lede here is that "organic", as applied to food is itself a meaningless concept. It's just an ersatz religious practice. What assurance is there that no glyphosate particles have found their way onto your artisanal apple grown in zebu manure?
And who is to say that organic carrot you're eating is any better for you. From a pesticide standpoint, almost all of the pesticides we eat (by weight) are natural and possible carcinogens. [1] A person's synthetic pesticide exposure is dwarfed by the natural pesticide chemicals the plants produce themselves (except for farm workers). Dose makes the poison--at the small levels we intake, with normal handling, risk is…
I'll climb on the soapbox. Glyphosate is great stuff. Good on sandwiches too. Hell, even Patrick Moore[1] does shots[2] of the stuff and he's almost perfect.
1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Moore_(consultant)
2. https://time.com/3761053/monsanto-weed-killer-drink-patrick-...
Edit: original comment was abridged by the benevolence of Verizon and their warm wireless affection for rural vermin. Rather than rewrite it, I'll capitulate and admire it as 'is'.
Re: Glyphosate in Organic Hydroponic Food Production
#28At least, when I am purchasing "Organic" products, I would expect to use the least or zero amount of pesticide/herbicide/etc. in the growth of the "organic" plants and animals. If the article is showing the truth, it feels like those companies are cheating the consumers who are paying for that premium product. It's also unfortunate that there are certifications companies that are either created or "cooped" by compani…
Organic is a marketing term created by organic companies. Growing things without herbicides and pesticides is very difficult.
Re: Glyphosate in Organic Hydroponic Food Production
#29I don't have an opinion for or against use of glyphosate with "organic" food and share the general cynicism of the thread about the "organic" label.
But this site has a strong position on glyphosate (in accepting the premise that it is a "probable human carcinogen"), which is worth staying aware of. That position is probably totally reasonable for their audience, but keep in mind that it's automatically being recontextualized by being posted on HN.
So on this site, it's worth keeping in mind that glyphosate's status as a human health bogeyman is, at least, debatable. There is a huge amount of controversy over the manner in which IARC came to its conclusion, other health agencies have sharply disagreed with it, and, perhaps most importantly for this article, the exposure scenarios connecting cancer risk to glyphosate probably aren't relevant to food consumers.
Since part of the point of glyphosate is to reduce application of stronger herbicides that are more biologically active in humans, and those herbicides are generally neither known by name to consumers nor banned from agriculture, it's worth splitting hairs here.
Re: Glyphosate in Organic Hydroponic Food Production
#30At least, when I am purchasing "Organic" products, I would expect to use the least or zero amount of pesticide/herbicide/etc. in the growth of the "organic" plants and animals. If the article is showing the truth, it feels like those companies are cheating the consumers who are paying for that premium product. It's also unfortunate that there are certifications companies that are either created or "cooped" by compani…
Organic is a marketing term created by organic companies. Growing things without herbicides and pesticides is very difficult.
No, that's not true, it's the strongest USDA mandated and certified food standard available in the USA. The USA standard is far weaker than EU's organic standard, which is weaker than the UK's, but it is still the strongest defined standard in the US market.
Not only do those standards limit pesticides, they restrict frequency and amount of what is permissible. The European standards have additional rules around animal welfare (I'm less sure about the US here) - which make organic the most animal friendly way of buying food, regardless of whether or not you care about organic's aims or use of pesticides.