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Farm country feeds America, but try buying groceries there

nytimes.com

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Re: Farm country feeds America, but try buying groceries there

#221

Post by linuxftw »

kilo_bravo_3 wrote: post #167
refurb wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? At some point in time these people had $X. They decided that it was better for them to shop at Walmart versus their local grocer. Is this surprising? No. Walmart offers better selection and prices. Economy of scale plays a big part in that. They had every choice to keep spending their dollars at their local grocer. And they decided not to.

The never-ending blame-shifting has to stop. Nobody killed the local grocer except for consumers. Consumers killed the middle class. Sometime, somewhere, someone walked into a store and saw a Philco radio made in Pennsylvania by unionized middle-class manufacturing workers and a cheap Japanese/Tawianese copy of the radio and bought the cheap radio. Sometime, somewhere, someone saw a mailer from Walmart and saw that t…

Importing goods from countries that have no environmental regulations, literal slave labor, little-to-no tariffs is what drove the local stores out of business.

You can't have such a lopsided system and expect it to survive.

If we're talking about food stores and food producers, same thing. The large corporations receive the subsidies from the government to produce the crops, and the large retailers control the market for those crops.

Re: Farm country feeds America, but try buying groceries there

#222

Post by mlthoughts2018 »

nexuist wrote: post #199
nmcfarl wrote: post #84

Grocery Stores closing really is happening, and really is a problem. And it's part of what's killing towns - if only because attracting new folk without one is hard. We live in John Day, Or (pop 1700)(County pop 7200, area: about 2x Delaware), which we chose partially because of it's supermarket. The next closest supermarket is 90min away. (Walmart: 2h). Not having to commute hours for groceries is a big deal, as is…

> Not having to commute hours for groceries is a big deal, as is being able to get vegetables of season - and in the rural west these things not a given. What you are describing is a de facto food desert: https://www.cdc.gov/features/FoodDeserts/index.html There might be an easy (albeit costly) way to fix this. Just today I learned about a govt agency called the Essential Air Service: > The United States Department o…

From the Wikipedia article,

> “Per passenger EAS subsidy in the 48 contiguous states plus Puerto Rico ranged from $10 to more than $977 per passenger in 2014.”

> “EAS subsidies have increased by more than 500% since 1997, not accounting for inflation”

> “According to a 2006 New York Times article on the program, the subsidy per passenger, averaged across the entire program excluding Alaska, is approximately $74, and much higher on some particularly poorly patronized flights[6] where subsidies are as high as $801 per passenger.”

> “Patronage on many flights is very low. The majority of EAS airplanes have fewer than 20 seats, and flights typically are less than half full.[8] However, the program is politically popular in the cities receiving the subsidized flights, many of which use an airport with scheduled service as a selling point to attract industry to their regions. Several subsidized airports are within an hour's drive from an unsubsidized airport.”

This sounds like a profoundly terrible service for everyone except ~10 people per flight getting $100 - $800 subsidies (sometimes even when commercial airports are an hour away).

Re: Farm country feeds America, but try buying groceries there

#224

Post by elihu »

bgorman wrote: post #202
nexuist wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not having to commute hours for groceries is a big deal, as is being able to get vegetables of season - and in the rural west these things not a given. What you are describing is a de facto food desert: https://www.cdc.gov/features/FoodDeserts/index.html There might be an easy (albeit costly) way to fix this. Just today I learned about a govt agency called the Essential Air Service: > The United States Department o…

Why should we be subsidizing rural communities with free services that are terrible for the environment? If people want the benefits of modern civilization like air travel and grocery stores, they should move to cities. We are doing enough harm to the world in cities, we don't need to encourage sprawl even more.

We need to have at least some people living in small towns and sparsely populated areas to produce food and manage natural resources that cities depend on.

Re: Farm country feeds America, but try buying groceries there

#225

Post by core-questions »

bgorman wrote: post #202
nexuist wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not having to commute hours for groceries is a big deal, as is being able to get vegetables of season - and in the rural west these things not a given. What you are describing is a de facto food desert: https://www.cdc.gov/features/FoodDeserts/index.html There might be an easy (albeit costly) way to fix this. Just today I learned about a govt agency called the Essential Air Service: > The United States Department o…

Why should we be subsidizing rural communities with free services that are terrible for the environment? If people want the benefits of modern civilization like air travel and grocery stores, they should move to cities. We are doing enough harm to the world in cities, we don't need to encourage sprawl even more.

Have you ever, like, left the city, man? Do you really think everyone can just live in the city without anyone out in the rural areas, you know, growing your fucking food?

Re: Farm country feeds America, but try buying groceries there

#226

Post by [deleted] »

core-questions wrote: post #225
bgorman wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should we be subsidizing rural communities with free services that are terrible for the environment? If people want the benefits of modern civilization like air travel and grocery stores, they should move to cities. We are doing enough harm to the world in cities, we don't need to encourage sprawl even more.

Have you ever, like, left the city, man? Do you really think everyone can just live in the city without anyone out in the rural areas, you know, growing your fucking food?

[deleted]

Re: Farm country feeds America, but try buying groceries there

#227

Post by somatic »

Spooky23 wrote: post #6

We gave up on farms in the 80s. Agriculture is just another industrial process now. Since we subsidize growing vegetables in the desert and abroad, the market for stuff like vegetables, dairy and meats is hyper-consolidates. There are viable farms on the fringes, but they cannot get capital to grow and cannot compete. I grew up in an area of upstate NY that was a breadbasket at one time, with a rich, diverse agricult…

It wasn't so much "gave up on" as it was "deliberately destroyed".

Since the late 1800's, the banks and the governments have pursued a continuous policy of economic centralization and integration, and key to that policy has been the gradual ratchet of making farms unprofitable and uneconomical.

We could have a thriving agricultural economy — just change the policymakers.

Re: Farm country feeds America, but try buying groceries there

#228

Post by lotsofpulp »

elihu wrote: post #224
bgorman wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should we be subsidizing rural communities with free services that are terrible for the environment? If people want the benefits of modern civilization like air travel and grocery stores, they should move to cities. We are doing enough harm to the world in cities, we don't need to encourage sprawl even more.

We need to have at least some people living in small towns and sparsely populated areas to produce food and manage natural resources that cities depend on.

Then the government can pay the people in rural areas enough cash to fly in food, or enough to pay for prices high enough to make it worthwhile to open a grocery store.

Costs should be as transparent as possible. If there is low supply and high demand, you can increase supply by moving the prices up.

Alternatively, people in rural areas have to charge far more money for what they sell.

Re: Farm country feeds America, but try buying groceries there

#229

Post by peterwwillis »

During WWII, the government urged urban citizens to plant Victory Gardens so that farmed produce could go to the troops. Home and community plots resulted in an estimated 10 million tons of harvested produce, equal to the commercial production of the time.

The cause of these food deserts must be addressed, but in the mean time, I think a return to the Victory Garden would be useful (assuming it doesn't work too well and end up tanking agro prices). You just need south or east facing windows, porches or roofs, and you can easily construct (or buy) window boxes and raised beds.

Re: Farm country feeds America, but try buying groceries there

#230

Post by archgoon »

kkarakk wrote: post #80
Spooky23 wrote: post #6

We gave up on farms in the 80s. Agriculture is just another industrial process now. Since we subsidize growing vegetables in the desert and abroad, the market for stuff like vegetables, dairy and meats is hyper-consolidates. There are viable farms on the fringes, but they cannot get capital to grow and cannot compete. I grew up in an area of upstate NY that was a breadbasket at one time, with a rich, diverse agricult…

I really do think automation and the logical efficiences of getting a robot to transport produce from 200 miles away vs 20000 miles away will fix this problem. Farms will come back, they will just be run by corporations instead.

> Farms will come back, they will just be run by corporations instead.

I believe that is already the case.

https://www.cnbc.com/2014/05/06/state-of-american-farming-bi...

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