Farm country feeds America, but try buying groceries there • Hacker News Board

Re: Farm country feeds America, but try buying groceries there

#71

Post by hsitz » Tue, Nov 05, 2019, 5:07 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #34

rriepe wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite this consistently happening , I doubt you can name a single Republican politician who has run and been elected on this platform.

> I doubt you can name a single Republican politician who has run and been elected on this platform. A whole lot of Republican politicians since around 2000 (including George W. Bush) have run for and been elected to federal office on an overt platform of dismantling both the revenue and benefit payment sides of Social Security. Sure, the soundbite has been “saving social security”, but the concrete policy of dismant…

Yeah, same George Bush. George Bush's effort to privatize social security: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_debate_in_the_...

RE: Medicare Part D, that's a pretty controversial topic. In the political air of the time, passing something like that was an absolute necessity. Bush/Republicans got it passed in a way that (a) involved big benefits for big pharma (e.g., no ability of government to negotiate drug prices) and (b) failing to pay for it in budget, thus hugely increasing deficits and national debt.

Re: Farm country feeds America, but try buying groceries there

#72

Post by ggggtez » Tue, Nov 05, 2019, 5:13 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #18

This doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Stores like Walmart and Dollar stores opened up, and consumer made the choice to shop there rather than at local grocery stores . Sounds like they are getting exactly what they wanted? Reminds me of folks in SF who bemoan the loss of a local butcher store. Sure, they may like buying organic cuts of meat at $15/lb, but it's obviously most people don't, that's why those stores we…

Yes and no. Walmart often is not going to have food as fresh as a Farmers market or community store. But farmers may feel the need to shop there anyway due to prices.

Perhaps they still wanted fresh produce too, but because they weren't buying enough, the result was that couldn't buy any.

People are not good at predicting long term effects of their purchasing decisions. This had been a trend for the last 20 years: Walmart comes in, local businesses close down. But no one said the people are happy. The issue is the people need to coordinate their purchases to get what they actually want.

Re: Farm country feeds America, but try buying groceries there

#73

Post by kkarakk » Tue, Nov 05, 2019, 5:16 PM UTC

fzeroracer wrote: post #59

refurb wrote: post #18

This doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Stores like Walmart and Dollar stores opened up, and consumer made the choice to shop there rather than at local grocery stores . Sounds like they are getting exactly what they wanted? Reminds me of folks in SF who bemoan the loss of a local butcher store. Sure, they may like buying organic cuts of meat at $15/lb, but it's obviously most people don't, that's why those stores we…

What real choice did consumers have? Walmart came in and drastically slashed prices on groceries because they had the size, money and infrastructure to cheaply move goods around. This was intentional behavior to kill local grocery stores and it worked, because consumers in these areas tend to be poorer and will shop at places that save them the most money. This is intentional behavior abused by Walmart to intentional…

How do these towns even exist if there are no jobs? One guy talks about a collection of 100+ guns(from my understanding guns are worth quite a chunk of money if well maintained)

This story makes no sense to me, just sounds like a town where people don't want to leave and have no incentive to stay.

The only sane person is the one who started sustenance farming - that's the way to go if you want to live in the middle of nowhere.

Re: Farm country feeds America, but try buying groceries there

#74

Post by refurb » Tue, Nov 05, 2019, 5:19 PM UTC

fzeroracer wrote: post #59

refurb wrote: post #18

This doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Stores like Walmart and Dollar stores opened up, and consumer made the choice to shop there rather than at local grocery stores . Sounds like they are getting exactly what they wanted? Reminds me of folks in SF who bemoan the loss of a local butcher store. Sure, they may like buying organic cuts of meat at $15/lb, but it's obviously most people don't, that's why those stores we…

What real choice did consumers have? Walmart came in and drastically slashed prices on groceries because they had the size, money and infrastructure to cheaply move goods around. This was intentional behavior to kill local grocery stores and it worked, because consumers in these areas tend to be poorer and will shop at places that save them the most money. This is intentional behavior abused by Walmart to intentional…

Those evil corporations offering consumers lower prices and better selection!!

They need to stop hurting consumers!!

Re: Farm country feeds America, but try buying groceries there

#75

Post by war1025 » Tue, Nov 05, 2019, 5:19 PM UTC

AgloeDreams wrote: post #14

I kinda felt like this was an article that had a missing Character, like covering the 2016 election but not mentioning Bernie or Comey. The reality is that Walmart's Chinese-sourced non-food goods (including clothing, auto parts, and general household supplies) were priced 50+% cheaper than many non-food (and higher profit) items one could get from a grocery store, once you're at Walmart then, well you're at Walmart.…

I don't think Dollar General targets places without any businesses, at least around Iowa where I have experience with them. They target places where there is some community, but not enough to support a bigger general store (i.e Walmart).

There is a Dollar General about a half mile from my house. It is literally next door to the local grocery store. They serve similar but different purposes.

Dollar General is where you go to get something that you'd usually get in the city. Obviously, less selection and lower quality, but focused on stuff rather than food.

Re: Farm country feeds America, but try buying groceries there

#76

Post by refurb » Tue, Nov 05, 2019, 5:20 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #60

refurb wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow! So shopping at Walmart is the same as heroin addiction? Your attitude is just the old paternalistic "You're too stupid to know what's best for you, so I'm going to force you to make the right decision for you." Thank god we don't live in a country where that's broadly supported.

No, that's not the point that I'm making. The point that I am making is that platitudes about 'The people asked for it, now they got it, therefore we have optimized overall good' are poor arguments. Satisfying wants don't always result in locally, or globally optimal outcomes.

How is this not optimized for the greater good? Because some people miss their local grocery store?

Re: Farm country feeds America, but try buying groceries there

#77

Post by jngreenlee » Tue, Nov 05, 2019, 5:21 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #18

This doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Stores like Walmart and Dollar stores opened up, and consumer made the choice to shop there rather than at local grocery stores . Sounds like they are getting exactly what they wanted? Reminds me of folks in SF who bemoan the loss of a local butcher store. Sure, they may like buying organic cuts of meat at $15/lb, but it's obviously most people don't, that's why those stores we…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Something_Wall-Mart_This_Way_C...

Re: Farm country feeds America, but try buying groceries there

#78

Post by kkarakk » Tue, Nov 05, 2019, 5:21 PM UTC

Bartweiss wrote: post #57

vkou wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A homeless heroin addict is also getting exactly what he wants from his dealer. Sometimes, what you want in the short-term is not what's good for you in the long-term.

Definitely true, but this article feels a bit like saying "heroin addiction is unhealthy, so we need to offer addicts jogging paths and art galleries because those are healthier". Excluding brief mentions of business consolidation and state tax credits, there's almost no engagement with why the problem got started or what will be different the second time around. If we want to look at why the heroin addict got starte…

Exactly, those towns were going to die anyways and the Walmarts came in coz they got tax subsidies - which they got because they would keep the towns alive a little longer.

If there's nothing in an area to give you income besides a single unknowable unexciting corporate employer, people will move away.

Re: Farm country feeds America, but try buying groceries there

#79

Post by war1025 » Tue, Nov 05, 2019, 5:22 PM UTC

AgloeDreams wrote: post #65

lotsofpulp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would seem the issue is with low incomes rather than with Dollar General.

Oh for sure, but stores focused on bringing high margin cheap imported goods and base minimum wage jobs into communities that formerly bought locally produced goods does not exactly help this problem. Dollar General's expansion would burn if the minimum wage were raised.

That would be a pretty strong incentive for certain groups to oppose a minimum wage hike then. In my experience, a small town in the midwest is likely to have 1. A grocery store, 2. A hardware store, and 3. a Dollar General.

If you come along with a plan that is going to shutter one of the three remaining businesses where you can buy actual day to day goods, people aren't going to be too thrilled.

Re: Farm country feeds America, but try buying groceries there

#80

Post by kkarakk » Tue, Nov 05, 2019, 5:23 PM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #6

We gave up on farms in the 80s. Agriculture is just another industrial process now. Since we subsidize growing vegetables in the desert and abroad, the market for stuff like vegetables, dairy and meats is hyper-consolidates. There are viable farms on the fringes, but they cannot get capital to grow and cannot compete. I grew up in an area of upstate NY that was a breadbasket at one time, with a rich, diverse agricult…

I really do think automation and the logical efficiences of getting a robot to transport produce from 200 miles away vs 20000 miles away will fix this problem.

Farms will come back, they will just be run by corporations instead.