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Farm country feeds America, but try buying groceries there

nytimes.com

41–50 of 337 posts

Re: Farm country feeds America, but try buying groceries there

#41

So the town in the article is going to be nearly completely unlivable without a vehicle and is about 20 miles from a Walmart. There will be few decent jobs that are walkable, limited medical care, etc, in a town of 1,500, it is just the way it is. Which isn't to say that these folks can't lament reduced access to food, but the literal availability of food is low there only if you ignore that other circumstances alrea…

Autonomous rural delivery growth will be huge(!) as the population ages out. Perhaps there can be a federal subsidy for that.

Re: Farm country feeds America, but try buying groceries there

#42
post #18

This doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Stores like Walmart and Dollar stores opened up, and consumer made the choice to shop there rather than at local grocery stores . Sounds like they are getting exactly what they wanted? Reminds me of folks in SF who bemoan the loss of a local butcher store. Sure, they may like buying organic cuts of meat at $15/lb, but it's obviously most people don't, that's why those stores we…

Choice is an interesting word. Our purchasing decisions are constrained by income, which is limited by education and experience.

If someone grows up with poor education in an economically stagnant area, their likely minimum-wage severely limits the freedom to choose. Surplus unskilled labor translates to downward pressure on wages which implies the same for goods on the market - it's a nasty feedback loop that undercuts the local economy.

Re: Farm country feeds America, but try buying groceries there

#43
post #3

Walmart and the like killed local competition. There’s a gas station I stop at from time to time in the country with a Walmart next door. It’s insanely busy. I have family in the country and they accept having to drive to get decent groceries. There are seasonal vegetable and fruit stands but you couldn’t get everything you need. A local ranch sells beef but it would be quite expensive to buy year around unless you w…

[flagged]

One can look at it from another perspective -- when Walmart comes to town, typically they'll receive a tax break, which is an unfair advantage over a local grocery store. They'll also typically get a massive investment in terms of newly built infrastructure -- roads all around the lot, pipes, electricity, etc, compared to a local grocery store.

When you compare the revenue the WalMart (or any big box store) brings in compared to the amount of space it takes up (with a massive parking lot), it's typically WAY less than a small neighborhood grocery store built in the older traditional style. It's only because towns and cities have effectively subsidized these big-box stores that they've taken over. They're really a terrible deal for municipal governments in terms of economic benefits.

In many places (such as Texas), people don't consider space to be valuable because it's so plentiful -- which is true in one sense. But it's not just space we care about, it's infrastructure-supported space. Space that has roads to access it, water pipes, electricity, police and fire services, etc. will ALWAYS be scarce. These resources are expensive, and the more spread-out things are, the more money we're forced to spend on infrastructure.

This is a good way to present the issue to anyone who identifies as a free-market capitalist. Free markets require a level playing field to work properly.

Re: Farm country feeds America, but try buying groceries there

#44
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NIMBYism is terrible, and so is whataboutism.

Whataboutism is sometimes a good way to point out rank hypocrisy. I didn't vote for Trump and won't, but I totally understand why he won. He won largely by taking traditionally Democratic counties in the Midwest who are fed up with having their jobs sent to totalitarian countries in one-sided trade deals for the benefit of huge corporations. He also won because people look at the coastal "blue" cities and see unaffor…

A poor person can't afford a home in either Texas or California. Not unless you cherry pick living in the middle of nowhere, in which case both states are perfectly affordable.

And if you get sick or injured in Texas, well, I hope you have good health insurance from your job.

Re: Farm country feeds America, but try buying groceries there

#45
post #37
post #18

This doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Stores like Walmart and Dollar stores opened up, and consumer made the choice to shop there rather than at local grocery stores . Sounds like they are getting exactly what they wanted? Reminds me of folks in SF who bemoan the loss of a local butcher store. Sure, they may like buying organic cuts of meat at $15/lb, but it's obviously most people don't, that's why those stores we…

A homeless heroin addict is also getting exactly what he wants from his dealer. Sometimes, what you want in the short-term is not what's good for you in the long-term.

Wow! So shopping at Walmart is the same as heroin addiction?

Your attitude is just the old paternalistic "You're too stupid to know what's best for you, so I'm going to force you to make the right decision for you."

Thank god we don't live in a country where that's broadly supported.

Re: Farm country feeds America, but try buying groceries there

#46

We're just a blink away from a new era of autonomous vehicles, which should make most of this a moot point. For all of these small rural communities, it makes sense for each of the local governments to purchase a fleet of vehicles that offer free shipping to its community from distant urban areas and subsidize on a local level. The future of bricks-and-mortar (or cinder blocks and cement) is anyones guess, but fricti…

If its the costs that are preventing the consumers from getting the products they desire, the markets should find a way to overcome the obstacles using the new tools and resources available as the come online.

I've heard it called a warehouse on wheels, but it will be interesting to see how the delivery economy evolves.

Re: Farm country feeds America, but try buying groceries there

#47
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whataboutism is sometimes a good way to point out rank hypocrisy. I didn't vote for Trump and won't, but I totally understand why he won. He won largely by taking traditionally Democratic counties in the Midwest who are fed up with having their jobs sent to totalitarian countries in one-sided trade deals for the benefit of huge corporations. He also won because people look at the coastal "blue" cities and see unaffor…

A poor person can't afford a home in either Texas or California. Not unless you cherry pick living in the middle of nowhere, in which case both states are perfectly affordable. And if you get sick or injured in Texas, well, I hope you have good health insurance from your job.

Maybe not outright poor, but compare home prices vs. median income in most of Dallas (excluding the most expensive neighborhoods) vs almost anywhere in LA or SF.

Ninja edit since I can't reply: no, they are not even comparable:

https://www.trulia.com/TX/Dallas/

Just wow. Try finding that anywhere in SF, LA, OC, or SD. I see a lot of decent homes under $200k. I don't mean trailers.

My point is about optics as much as reality. A lot of people look at San Francisco to see what liberalism is going to do since that city has a reputation (right or wrong) as being a kind of capital city for the Democratic left. When they look they see a city with massive wealth divides where nobody but the rich can afford a reasonable home and there are drug addicts on every street corner. They think "wow, so this is the future that liberalism is going to give us."

I'm not sure this is totally wrong either. I wouldn't want the country run by the head-up-the-arse crowd that runs San Francisco any more than I want it run by the current bunch of clowns occupying the executive branch.

Re: Farm country feeds America, but try buying groceries there

#48
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite this consistently happening , I doubt you can name a single Republican politician who has run and been elected on this platform.

> I doubt you can name a single Republican politician who has run and been elected on this platform. A whole lot of Republican politicians since around 2000 (including George W. Bush) have run for and been elected to federal office on an overt platform of dismantling both the revenue and benefit payment sides of Social Security. Sure, the soundbite has been “saving social security”, but the concrete policy of dismant…

Are you talking about the same George W Bush who lead the expansion of Medicare to include Medicare Part D?

That one?

Re: Farm country feeds America, but try buying groceries there

#49
post #3

Walmart and the like killed local competition. There’s a gas station I stop at from time to time in the country with a Walmart next door. It’s insanely busy. I have family in the country and they accept having to drive to get decent groceries. There are seasonal vegetable and fruit stands but you couldn’t get everything you need. A local ranch sells beef but it would be quite expensive to buy year around unless you w…

"Lots of people vote against “socialism” and then collect Medicade, social security and disability."

That reasoning is shallow. They can't opt out of paying the taxes that support those programs; so what sense does it make opting out of the benefits?

Re: Farm country feeds America, but try buying groceries there

#50
post #18

This doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Stores like Walmart and Dollar stores opened up, and consumer made the choice to shop there rather than at local grocery stores . Sounds like they are getting exactly what they wanted? Reminds me of folks in SF who bemoan the loss of a local butcher store. Sure, they may like buying organic cuts of meat at $15/lb, but it's obviously most people don't, that's why those stores we…

Choice is an interesting word. Our purchasing decisions are constrained by income, which is limited by education and experience. If someone grows up with poor education in an economically stagnant area, their likely minimum-wage severely limits the freedom to choose. Surplus unskilled labor translates to downward pressure on wages which implies the same for goods on the market - it's a nasty feedback loop that underc…

Huh? At some point in time these people had $X. They decided that it was better for them to shop at Walmart versus their local grocer. Is this surprising? No. Walmart offers better selection and prices. Economy of scale plays a big part in that.

They had every choice to keep spending their dollars at their local grocer. And they decided not to.

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