Bitcoin is the only meaningful digital currency and sound money.
Facebook Libra Is Architecturally Unsound
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Re: Facebook Libra Is Architecturally Unsound
#12>The possibility that a Libra node run by Mastercard or Andressen Horrowitz would suddenly start running malicious code is such a bizarre scenario to plan for and is better solved by simply enforcing protocol integrity and through non-technical (i.e. legal ) means. Refusing to rely on legal means of enforcement suggests the project views itself supreme over all national policies, laws and regulations. On the one hand…
Re: Facebook Libra Is Architecturally Unsound
#13Bitcoin is the only meaningful digital currency and sound money.
Do you believe that bitcoin is useful as an actual currency? As far as I can tell, its only use is to buy drugs and other illegal things online.
Re: Facebook Libra Is Architecturally Unsound
#14Re: Facebook Libra Is Architecturally Unsound
#15Re: Facebook Libra Is Architecturally Unsound
#16> Byzantine fault tolerance is a fairly niche area of distributed systems research that concerns the ability of a networked system to endure arbitrary failures of its components while taking corrective actions critical to the system’s operation. Networks that are byzantine tolerant must resist several types of attacks including restarts, crashes, malicious payloads, and malicious voting in leader elections. This design decision is central to Libra and it makes zero sense.
BFT consensus is standard in blockchain. Libra is building a protocol and reference implementation but anyone can build their own implementation, just as Bitcoin and Ethereum have several clients written independently as separate open source projects. As Facebook intends to be just one member of the Libra consortium, and anyone (member or not) can write software to the protocol spec, BFT is the logical choice.
If Libra was trying to be a centralized entity owned by Facebook, then BFT consensus would make no sense. But it's not - Libra is supposed to be a decentralized blockchain payment system, similar to Bitcoin, so BFT is the logical (and standard!) choice.
> Libra has no transaction privacy. By the admission of the whitepaper the system is designed to be pseudonymous meaning the addresses used at the protocol are derived from elliptic curve public keys and contain no metadata about the accounts.
This means the same level of anonymity as provided by Bitcoin. Post-transaction analysis may identify the owners of keys by cross-referencing known addresses, but onchain it is unknown. Again, very standard in blockchain. There are various techniques to improve privacy, such as how SiaCoin generates new addresses for every transaction by default, but again I want to emphasize that the shrill language used by the author is coming from someone who doesn't understand the technology. I agree with him that Facebook could (and probably will) improve on Bitcoin's pseudo-anonymity, but claiming outright that this is some sort of grand oversight is just plain wrong.
> Libra HotStuff BFT is not capable of achieving the throughput necessary for a payment rail... There is no technical reason that cross border payments could also not settle instantly, except for the differences in rules and requirements across the jurisdictions involved.
This is more about the philosophy of our payments infrastructure. Let's assume Facebook solves scaling, which is a problem many blockchains have solved (or are solving) in various ways. For example, Bitcoin's lightning network moves small transactions off-chain to settle later in one transaction that batches them. I'm not saying that's a good solution, either for Bitcoin or for Libra, I'm just saying the scaling problem can be solved even if the consensus algorithm is limiting.
On the question of "why use blockchain for payments at all", this is more philosophical. You have monopoly-controlled payment systems that tightly control who can integrate with them and improvements to the core level take years / decades (see ACH in the USA). Blockchain is one major way that software is eating finance - companies and individuals will be able to hack away at the system and build novel innovations with much less friction. Whether you think this is a good thing is a matter of philosophy.
> Libra’s Move language is not sound... In the public blockchains, smart contracts refer to logic deployed on public networks which allows escrowing, laundering money, and the issuance of extralegal securities and gambling products. These are typically done in a shockingly badly designed language called Solidity, which from an academic PL perspective, makes PHP look like a work of genius.
Clearly biased, Solidity has its warts but it is successfully being used for billions of dollars in real-world transactions per day. The author is something of a compiler hacker according to his Github so I assume he feels qualified and passionate to speak on this. But Move has not been battle-tested yet so I would at least let it get finished and deployed before claiming it's dead-on-arrival.
> Libra’s cryptography engineering is unsound.
Facebook, like many other companies, can pay for audits and formal verification of crypto libraries. As Libra will not be production-ready for years (it isn't live today!), I think we can give Facebook the benefit of the doubt on this. They are a massive company with near-limitless resources.
I want to conclude by saying that blockchain and cryptocurrency are knee-jerk hated by Hacker News, and have been so for years. You typically won't find positive (or even neutral) opinions on it, nor casual HN comments discussing the minutiae of the underlying tech the way you would for (say) Rust.
People who are deep into this scene are posting on other websites that aren't as negative on the subject. There are indeed highly technical and competent people who work in this space. However it remains quite niche given its outsized mindshare in society. I encourage people to keep an open mind, there are very interesting problems to be solved if you can avoid the overwhelming criticism.
Re: Facebook Libra Is Architecturally Unsound
#17There have been a lot of posts and responses about Libra. The core of it is that FB wants to be an unregulated bank. That is all this whole thing is about. Given the current (and post 2020 political realities?), it is no wonder all the established payment companies tapped out. This effort will be delayed until their is a government structure willing to look the other way. It will also be really interesting to see how…
> "Libra is not welcome on European soil," French Economy Minister Bruno Le Maire told reporters the sidelines of the annual meetings of the World Bank and International Monetary Fund
> "Do we want to put monetary policy in the hands of a private company like Facebook? My answer is clearly no," he said
[0]: https://www.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/paris-...
Re: Facebook Libra Is Architecturally Unsound
#18Re: Facebook Libra Is Architecturally Unsound
#19There have been a lot of posts and responses about Libra. The core of it is that FB wants to be an unregulated bank. That is all this whole thing is about. Given the current (and post 2020 political realities?), it is no wonder all the established payment companies tapped out. This effort will be delayed until their is a government structure willing to look the other way. It will also be really interesting to see how…
"no private entity can claim monetary power, which is inherent to the sovereignty of nations"
Re: Facebook Libra Is Architecturally Unsound
#20This was a bit of a throw away line, but I found it insightful. As someone who isn't in this space, my question is: why is this? Is it contractual, or is that just not part of the space's ethos?
Feels like we need to overcome this some how to achieve progress?