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Flood of Oil Is Coming, Complicating Efforts to Fight Global Warming

nytimes.com

421–430 of 489 posts

Re: Flood of Oil Is Coming, Complicating Efforts to Fight Global Warming

#421
post #137
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you and I in control of huge corporations?

Yes. Corporation do what their customers want. So you, as a customer, have control of them.

looks at missing esc key on my 2019 mbp

yea sure, "I'm in control"

Re: Flood of Oil Is Coming, Complicating Efforts to Fight Global Warming

#422
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are very far away from 40% renewables for primary energy consumption. Almost all countries are very far away even if you just look at electricity.

Exactly. We're closer to the 5% level today. I just see a lot of people seeing good renewable performance at a subsystems level and thinking it will continue unfettered up to the point that matters for climate change mitigation. Meanwhile we're actually building massive amounts of fracked natural gas generators, we're shutting down low-carbon nuclear plants, oil use in Asia is going gangbusters, NIMBYism around wind…

No one is saying we should stop being alarmed. Sheesh.

Re: Flood of Oil Is Coming, Complicating Efforts to Fight Global Warming

#424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought my F150 2 years ago and I love it (coming from a Honda CRV.) I'm a software engineer that works from home. If I need a 2x4 or mulch for the yard, I can throw it in the back without worry. They're versatile vehicles. Getting new couches for the living room? Throw it in the back of the truck instead of paying the ridiculous delivery fee.

I paid $500 and put a hitch on my Model S. I can tow more with a trailer than I could've put in my Toyota pickup truck bed (in 10 years of ownership, I never once towed anything more than 1000 lbs with my pickup). Not saying your use case is wrong (I get the appeal having owned a truck for so long), only that folks should consider that a pickup truck is not the only path to easy cargo logistics.

Ya, I don't think I would be too excited to haul a trailer with my $80k+ luxury vehicle. Nor would I have a place to park and store that trailer.

Re: Flood of Oil Is Coming, Complicating Efforts to Fight Global Warming

#425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lose half the battery capacity in cold weather. EVs are less efficient at highway speeds. Two things rural half ton trucks need. Add to that the loss of carrying capacity due to the battery weight. I'm not sure if motors and battery weigh a similar amount as a drivetrain and fuel, I hope so. If it's only city travel it's fine but that's not what a truck was made for. I'm all for electric vehicles and I hope the techn…

That's like the hall of fame entry for things that aren't actually true about electric vehicles. Efficiency doesn't get worse at highway speeds as compared to gas engines. EVs and gas engines spend more of their energy going faster against air resistance. evs are vastly more efficient than gas cars in terms of energey efficiency, thats why electric cars have theoretical gas mileage of around 100 mpg. But gas is a ver…

> thats why electric cars have theoretical gas mileage of around 100 mpg

what good is that when your theoretical car can only hold 2.5 (maybe) gallons of fuel

Re: Flood of Oil Is Coming, Complicating Efforts to Fight Global Warming

#426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but it solves the problem of traction. The electric vehicle also reduces efficiency by adding weight to the vehicle - being electric doesn't change physics. And being able to remove weight is always preferable to not being able to remove weight.

The battery weight is balanced by the removal of the engine, transmission and gas tank/gas weight.

It's not a controversial statement to say electric vehicles are heavier than gasoline vehicles. Typically an electric vehicle will weigh about 1/3 more than a competing ICE vehicle. Just look at curb weights for vehicles if you don't believe me.

Re: Flood of Oil Is Coming, Complicating Efforts to Fight Global Warming

#427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The electric vehicle also reduces efficiency by adding weight to the vehicle - being electric doesn't change physics. The battery adds weight, but that's more than outweighed by the tremendous efficiency of an electric drivetrain. The EV equivalent of a gas-guzzler (e.g. a Tesla Model X P90D) still achieves the equivalent of 90mpg.

I am not arguing that an ICE vehicle is more efficient than an electric vehicle - I am saying that adding weight reduces efficiency for both. I was not making a general comparison between the pros and cons of electric vehicles, I was pointing out that one person's comment about better traction for electric vehicles was incredibly disingenuous because ICE vehicles can get the same benefit by simply adding weight - and…

Good weight distribution in ICE cars is pretty exotic. Only fairly performance optimized ICE cars like a Porsche Cayman, BMW m3, and similar performance oriented cars get the ideal 50/50 distribution.

Changing that weight distribution is very expensive from a R&D perspective. Sometimes the battery is moved, or the engine is moved a few inches relative to the front axle. This is one of the reasons performance oriented cars are often rather large compared to their usable interior volumes.

Battery operated cars do have a weight penalty, but you can put that weight wherever you want. You could relatively trivially make a 50/50 distributor of significantly front or rear biased with no substantial R&D overhead or loss of efficiency.

For instance the Tesla model 3 not only has a very low center of gravity, but also a very low polar momentum. In an ice car that would require a mid engine design (like a Ferrari, Lamborghini, or the newest Corvette. While having an large usable volume, more like a bmw 5 series than a 3).

So basically weight distribution is easy to tweak with batteries, and even with the weight penalty have a substantial lead in efficiency.

Re: Flood of Oil Is Coming, Complicating Efforts to Fight Global Warming

#428

Demand for oil&gas will continue to grow for a long time due to: - SUV/pick-up boom (America's best-selling car in 2018 is the F150 series!) and more cars + trucks in countries like Brazil, India, China, Indonesia - crazy growth in air travel (look at order numbers of Airbus, see how many airports are under construction, see miles traveled via plane) - simultaneous shift away from coal+ nuclear, giving a huge boost t…

I completely disagree. While I do not believe we have hit peak oil yet, I do not believe we are far off nor will oil and gas demand continue to grow for "a long time". - The personal transportation industry will go through the biggest change it ever has in the next decade. Bigger than horse + buggy -> automobiles. An electric car will be cheaper to operate and maintain. Production of EVs will proliferate even countri…

You are spouting nonsense. Use of oil and gas isn't a matter of "belief". It's a function of demographic, developmental and economic variables. Pretty much the energy use for the next decade or two is nearly set in stone barring fusion energy.

Also, if you think going from gas cars to EV is a greater jump than horse buggy to automobiles, then you simply don't have a clue. As for china and india, EVs account for 0.0001% of cars.

If you think we are going to be using "all electric aircraft" at the end of this decade and that it will dent the need for oil for air travel, once again, you haven't a clue what you are talking about.

If you think natural gas growth is going to slow anytime soon, once again you haven't a clue what you are talking about. The bigger growth in energy has been in natural gas. It has solely been responsible for the collapse of the coal industry in the US. And there are tremendous room for growth in natural gas production in the US, Russia, etc.

> Your peak oil will be in the past once you see entire areas of housing in BRIC countries running on Solar/batteries. Goodbye. Oil.

Dumbest thing I've ever read. It much more likely that these countries are going to increase coal production to keep up with energy demand needs than going "solar/battery" route.

> War profiteers say the same thing. They never come out on the right side of the history book.

Nope. This is the dumbest thing I've ever read. War profiteers are some of the biggest winners we have.

> Oil and Gas will NOT have growth for a long time.

If you say so. But then again, people like you were claiming the end of oil a decade ago.

Re: Flood of Oil Is Coming, Complicating Efforts to Fight Global Warming

#429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The battery weight is balanced by the removal of the engine, transmission and gas tank/gas weight.

It's not a controversial statement to say electric vehicles are heavier than gasoline vehicles. Typically an electric vehicle will weigh about 1/3 more than a competing ICE vehicle. Just look at curb weights for vehicles if you don't believe me.

1/3 sounds crazy high.

Most would consider the Tesla Model 3 a luxury car. The BMW 3 series and Telsa model 3 are positioned similarly. Both are $40k-$80k, optionally AWD, sold as performance luxury sedans in a range of different performances. If you want to pick two particular models I'd say the model 3 AWD and the BMW 330i xdrive are very similar.

The BMW weights 3,763 pounds, so the Model 3P weight 4,072, which is just over 8% heavier.

Re: Flood of Oil Is Coming, Complicating Efforts to Fight Global Warming

#430
post #2

This is incredibly good news for the developing world in the short- and medium term, but really bad news for the long term. Cheap energy boosts economic growth and well-being. Oil finds its comparative advantage relative to cheap solar. Globally liquid fuel production and consumption just goes up year after year https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/steo/images/Fig6.png Reduced use of hydrocarbons in the west is nice but it's…

The idea that the developing world will benefit from cheap oil is ridiculous. The developing world is the one suffering from the impacts of global warming. Several countries in Africa are suffering from wars worsened by climate change driven migrations. Countries like India have a mix of cities running out of water, cities flooded by water and cities drowning in pollution which is almost certainly gonna erase years o…

The developing world are and will benefit from cheap oil. This is a fact. Not a matter for debate or discussion.

> Several countries in Africa are suffering from wars worsened by climate change driven migrations.

Now only if these african countries used more oil to develop and get rich so that they wouldn't have to fight over scraps. Are you seriously saying that a continent where a significant portion of the population lacks reliable electricity won't benefit from cheap oil and development?

> Countries like India have a mix of cities running out of water, cities flooded by water and cities drowning in pollution which is almost certainly gonna erase years of people's lives eliminating any improvements caused by better medicine.

A country with a per capita income of only $2K? Where hundreds of millions of its citizens live in poverty. You are claiming these people won't benefit from cheap oil and development?

The only people who are against cheap oil for africa, india, etc are privileged white liberal parasites who are already rich from a century of cheap oil. It's pretty pathetic to try and deny these people are chance at a better life because you want to help bankers enact a carbon tax on the world.

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