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U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

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Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#411

Post by akhilcacharya »

sorenn111 wrote: post #7

One thing I find crazy is the very same institutions that are generally very left leaning, decry income inequality, and espouse generally liberal views then turn around and having tuition costs that having been rising at rates so far above inflation. Student debt is a major issue in the US and the ever increasing costs of tuition are a MAJOR culprit in pushing this crisis. Where are these costs coming from? How can y…

> One thing I find crazy is the very same institutions that are generally very left leaning, decry income inequality, and espouse generally liberal views then turn around and having tuition costs that having been rising at rates so far above inflation.

Eh...the UChicago economics department and the people of Chile would like a word with you on that.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#412

Post by crusty »

chrischattin wrote: post #17

How to fix student loans... The .gov backs student loans. And, they are non-dischargeable. So, it is zero risk for the lender to give loan to the 2.7 GPA moron getting a worthless basket weaving degree from the local private lib arts school for $100k. So, they give as many loans as possible, since they can't lose (taxpayer on the hook). Colleges are incentivized to drive up costs of tuition b/c tons of free money. It…

The ad hominem hyperbole turned me against your much simpler - add moral hazard - argument. Do tell, which universities provide this degree in basket weaving that you denigrate? Sure, you may have drawn on this often invoked mythical degree as a standin for courses of study that you see as useless and valueless but implicitly know would quickly and easily get called out for revealing your bias about obviously subjective determinations of worth. Maybe basket weaving is really art or history or the study of native cultures. And there are plenty of smart people who have been 2.6 GPA students at some point, as GPA is not a measure of intelligence but an abstraction that simply measures one's ability to adhere to and excel at a fairly arbitrary framework.

Moral hazard may or may not be a simple, good solution but your argument for it, as presented, disincentivizes me from even considering it, since so much seemed to be missed in the argument, the same was probably true for consideration of the solution.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#413

Post by akhilcacharya »

misiti3780 wrote: post #71

As a US citizen, I see the US debt bomb ending it two different ways 1. Sanders/Warren get elected and somehow forgive 1.5 trillion in student loans and make education free going forward. 2. 2008 level crisis with (2) is the more probable I think universities tuition is way too expensive in our country, but I'm against (1) currently because I don't think retroactively forgiving debt is a good policy. The students too…

Harvard is a weird example to use.

I think we should stop offering government backed loans to all institutions that aren’t in-state public. Then, tie them to a graduation period. The moral hazard of taking out hundreds of thousands of debt that may never be paid back is (Ideally) gone.

Is there an issue to doing this?

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#414

Post by salty_biscuits »

solotronics wrote: post #356
glerk wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which major religion other than Islam forbids it?

Usury was prohibited in Christianity until not that long ago. "At the time, usury was interest of any kind, and the canon forbade the clergy to lend money at interest rates even as low as 1 percent per year. Later ecumenical councils applied this regulation to the laity." - https://www.jstor.org/stable/3161033?seq=1#page_scan_tab_con...

I read somewhere that this is behind the awful stereotypes in the merchant of venice. Because of the historical prohibitions within the religion, loans were taken out with lenders from outside the religion.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#415

Post by diablerouge »

paulddraper wrote: post #409
moduspol wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked for five years at a private university a few years ago, and my experience is similar, although to add a little: It never felt like a plan or conspiracy to make administration costs bigger. It's just very easy to do when you have more money coming in, year after year. In another economic environment, you'd get a "hard no" because the money isn't there. But when there is, expenditures become just another barga…

> These kind of things just happen when you can keep bringing in more and more money and so can your competitors. Yep. If appetite and available funding grow year after year, even the most honest of colleges will have a hard time not expanding costs. Fortunately, it's still pretty easy to get a 4-year degree from a solid school for Pricy, but still far less than the $1m extra lifetime earnings.

Hmmm, I'd beg to differ.

I lived at home, with my parents, and went to a state school and paid in-state tuition. Found online PDFs of all my textbooks, and I'm still just barely scraping in at under 40,000. This is from 2016 to 2020 (finishing up my last few courses over the next 6 months.) And the administration is still considering (aka going to pass) an 11% tuition increase, after a 9% increase just 2 years ago.

It's even worse for people who don't live near a university and need to live on campus, pay for meal plans, etc.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#416

Post by akhilcacharya »

crusty wrote: post #412
chrischattin wrote: post #17

How to fix student loans... The .gov backs student loans. And, they are non-dischargeable. So, it is zero risk for the lender to give loan to the 2.7 GPA moron getting a worthless basket weaving degree from the local private lib arts school for $100k. So, they give as many loans as possible, since they can't lose (taxpayer on the hook). Colleges are incentivized to drive up costs of tuition b/c tons of free money. It…

The ad hominem hyperbole turned me against your much simpler - add moral hazard - argument. Do tell, which universities provide this degree in basket weaving that you denigrate? Sure, you may have drawn on this often invoked mythical degree as a standin for courses of study that you see as useless and valueless but implicitly know would quickly and easily get called out for revealing your bias about obviously subject…

Those colleges exist, but they exist in the form of for-profits like Strayer and University of Phoenix. They prey on veterans and marginalized folks, many of whom don’t get jobs that can a pay off the debt afterward. It’s not “basket weaving”

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#418

Post by paulddraper »

diablerouge wrote: post #415
paulddraper wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These kind of things just happen when you can keep bringing in more and more money and so can your competitors. Yep. If appetite and available funding grow year after year, even the most honest of colleges will have a hard time not expanding costs. Fortunately, it's still pretty easy to get a 4-year degree from a solid school for Pricy, but still far less than the $1m extra lifetime earnings.

Hmmm, I'd beg to differ. I lived at home, with my parents, and went to a state school and paid in-state tuition. Found online PDFs of all my textbooks, and I'm still just barely scraping in at under 40,000. This is from 2016 to 2020 (finishing up my last few courses over the next 6 months.) And the administration is still considering (aka going to pass) an 11% tuition increase, after a 9% increase just 2 years ago. I…

Note that I only mentioned that number for tuition.

Rent, food, clothing, etc. will of course be more than that. $10,000/yr doesn't even clear the poverty line, college or otherwise. [1]

My number might have been a bit low, but average in-state public college is $10k/yr for tuition and fees. [2]

I went to college in Florida and Utah. Their top ranked public universities right now cost $6k/yr and $8k/yr respectively.

[1] https://www.thebalance.com/federal-poverty-level-definition-...

[2] https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-co...

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#419

Post by maxerickson »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #401
maxerickson wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a nasty line. Really, I think this site underestimates the value of "Go fuck yourself" when someone says stuff like that. Being polite isn't going to help them pull their head out of their ass.

That approach is against site guidelines, and for good reason. If one nasty comment is grounds to engage in a flamewar, this place is going to lose any ability to have a reasoned conversation.

I mean, if you reply "Go fuck yourself" you are probably done with the thread, not planning engaging further with the asshole.

Really, my point is that there is too much effort to engage assholerly as if it is actually reasoned conversation, when it is just assholery. Maybe we could go with the milder "This is ridiculous" as a reply or something.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#420

Post by jlawson »

dragonwriter wrote: post #407
jlawson wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies aren't people, legally speaking. This is a bizarre myth that just gets repeated as a sort of mindless anti-corporate shibboleth. Companies are legal entities which can sign contracts, hold debt, open bank accounts, etc. So are government agencies, unions, churches, mosques, guilds, charities. Does that means these are all people, legally speaking? For some reason nobody says 'the IRS is a person, legally sp…

> Companies aren't people, legally speaking. Yes, they are. > So are government agencies, unions, churches, mosques, guilds, charities. Does that means these are all people, legally speaking? Yes, all those things have legal personhood. > Companies cannot marry, vote, file taxes as a human, get a passport or driver's license etc, because they are not human, legally speaking Being human, legally speaking, is different…

Yes, sometimes companies are 'legal persons' when discussed in a legal context as I mentioned.

We are not in a legal context, so to use such language in a normal context without elaboration will obviously mislead most listeners. It is a false statement since it leads the listener to false conclusions.

>Being human, legally speaking, is different than being a person, legally speaking.

It is incumbent to explain this to normal listeners, otherwise you're misleading them.

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