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U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

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Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#391

Post by dragonwriter »

chrischattin wrote: post #17

How to fix student loans... The .gov backs student loans. And, they are non-dischargeable. So, it is zero risk for the lender to give loan to the 2.7 GPA moron getting a worthless basket weaving degree from the local private lib arts school for $100k. So, they give as many loans as possible, since they can't lose (taxpayer on the hook). Colleges are incentivized to drive up costs of tuition b/c tons of free money. It…

> The .gov backs student loans. And, they are non-dischargeable. So, it is zero risk for the lender to give loan to the 2.7 GPA moron getting a worthless basket weaving degree from the local private lib arts school for $100k. So, they give as many loans as possible, since they can't lose (taxpayer on the hook).

The only lender who is allowed to issue government-backed student loans for many years is the federal government, and their policy on what loans they’ll issue and on what terms are set in law, not a response to market incentives.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#392

Post by AnimalMuppet »

theflyinghorse wrote: post #177
Consultant32452 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd go one step further. Make the universities guarantee the loans. If a student earns a degree and isn't able to earn a living sufficient to pay back the loans then the University has failed.

What you are effectively saying is that university education exists solely for providing job training. That's not something most universities will agree with.

For the non-wealthy, the university education is in fact about job training. The non-wealthy can't afford to pay that kind of money for something that doesn't pay them back.

The wealthy can pay for a degree that doesn't pay them back. That's fine. They can study whatever they want with no regard for practicality.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#393

Post by ariwilson »

e40 wrote: post #351
Glyptodon wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got in to University of Chicago, but the finances were rough. They expected my parents to pay around 30% of their (combined) income in tuition after scholarships and loans. Presumably this would have dropped when my brother entered college a year after me, but given that I got into other schools that cost less than half as much it wasn't really a question. My parents didn't really know what to tell me because on on…

just that the way things worked made them feel like they were being punished for trying to be financially responsible 100% feel you, as I my son just started UCSD. He was looking at a bunch of private colleges and I did the financial aid (for early decision) and it was really shitty. I felt that because I had so much equity in my house and no debt, I was screwed. And, when the numbers came back, it was true. Very lit…

So is the life advice to go massively in debt (and jack up your income) before your kids apply to colleges? How far in advance do you have to go massively in debt?

EDIT: Looking at Princeton's financial needs calculator, assuming a constant income, to maximize your financial aid you should: - Reduce your assets: Buy a really expensive house, have nothing in savings/investments/other equity - Reduce your income: Pay a ton for private school tuition, medical expenses, or child support.

EDIT 2: Looking around some more, apparently FAFSA doesn't consider: Your primary residence Your car A boat you may own or furniture in your home Untaxed Social Security as income

Here comes my big house / Bugatti / yacht!

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#394

Post by garmaine »

pastor_elm wrote: post #137
garmaine wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Financial aid is code for student loans. If they meant a scholarship they would have said so.

> Guaranteed Free Tuition Families earning less than $125,000 per year (with typical assets) will receive a financial aid award that covers the full cost of tuition. Families earning less than $60,000 per year will have tuition, fees, and room and board covered by financial aid. UChicago’s need-based financial aid involves no loans and is awarded as grants, which do not need to be repaid. https://nobarriers.uchicago.…

That's the need-based financial aid program specifically. Are the numbers quoted by the grandparent post for that program specifically?

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#395

Post by vonmoltke »

LanceH wrote: post #151
sodafountan wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't do that because it would be far more beneficial at this point to just declare bankruptcy out of college and get the loans dismissed than it would be to pay them back. Also there's nothing of value to repossess if you were to declare bankruptcy, banks can't repossess and then re-sell a college degree.

Why are these loans special? Other loans without collateral exist. Maybe private lenders shouldn't have the full force of the government behind them. Maybe they shouldn't be offering some of these loans.

They don't, and they aren't. The non-dischargeable loans are all issued directly by the US Government.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#396

Post by DominikPeters »

agent008t wrote: post #40

How can these universities be so expensive, if you can instead go to a just-as-good university in the UK for a fraction of the cost, even as a foreign student? Why does anyone agree to pay such fees?

Oxford (UK) tuition for overseas students is $35-45k/year (and people generally pay sticker price), so not radically cheaper, though you get the B.A. in 3 years not 4. Other EU countries are much cheaper, but with a language barrier (except maybe NL).

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#397

Post by dragonwriter »

ChicagoBoy11 wrote: post #221
chrischattin wrote: post #17

How to fix student loans... The .gov backs student loans. And, they are non-dischargeable. So, it is zero risk for the lender to give loan to the 2.7 GPA moron getting a worthless basket weaving degree from the local private lib arts school for $100k. So, they give as many loans as possible, since they can't lose (taxpayer on the hook). Colleges are incentivized to drive up costs of tuition b/c tons of free money. It…

It is incredible to me how straightforward and undoubtedly true the point you are making is, yet I've had 0% success in bringing it up in conversation without immediately being called all sorts of names or accused of hating poor people.

> It is incredible to me how straightforward and undoubtedly true the point you are making is

Even the part when it relies on private lending behavior being driven by security provided to lenders by federal loan guarantees that haven't been available to private lenders since July 1, 2010?

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#398

Post by OldHand2018 »

Merrill wrote: post #141
OrangeMango wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The University of Chicago doesn't have an engineering school, per say. They recently started a "School of Molecular Engineering" with a large donation from the governor of Illinois. But that is certainly not a general engineering school and isn't going to be, so it will never show up in these kind of ratings. > Our program was established as the Institute for Molecular Engineering in 2011 by the University in partner…

They do seem to have a decent CS grad school program. They are tied for 30th with 6 other universities in US News. https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-sch... But Urbana-Champaign is 5th and should be somewhat less expensive.

UChicago is respectable, sure. But they also host the Toyota Technical Institute:

> TTIC offers a graduate program leading to a doctorate in computer science, and is currently focusing primarily on theoretical computer science (algorithms and complexity), applications of machine learning (computational biology, computer vision, natural language processing, robotics, and speech), and scientific computing (including numerical analysis, numerical optimization, and signal processing).

> Both regular and research faculty receive endowment-provided research funding sufficient for equipment and normal academic travel. Research faculty are not expected to raise external funding. However, regular faculty are expected to eventually raise their summer salary and to support their students with external funding.

> Research faculty are in non-tenure track positions with no teaching requirements. This is similar to a postdoctoral fellowship, but comes with endowment-provided independent research funding. Regular faculty are expected to teach only one quarter per year.

> TTIC is located in Hyde Park on the University of Chicago campus and has a close affiliation with the University of Chicago Computer Science Department. An agreement between the University of Chicago and TTIC allows cross-listing of computer science course offerings between the two institutions, providing students from each institution the opportunity to register in the others courses. Faculty and students enjoy full privileges of the University library system, athletic facilities and other services.

https://www.ttic.edu/about/

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#399

Post by treis »

joe5150 wrote: post #335
treis wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's known as "tracking" in the States and has a history of racial discrimination. There's little chance it will be implemented in the states.

are you talking about diploma pathways: "advanced"/"standard" diplomas and things of that nature? because that's the norm in several states.

More along the lines of everyone takes a test and the top X% are in the college prep track, the next Y% are in the 2 year community college track, and the rest are on the industrial/shop class track.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#400

Post by romwell »

chimi wrote: post #68

Throughout history, every time loans are invented to pay for something, the price skyrockets. House, Cars, Education... except credit cards. What credit cards did is flatten the salary curve, filling the gap between where salaries should be if they increased as much or more than inflation and the cost of living, with debt. Debt is a powerful tool when used correctly, but most people are unskilled in tool use, financi…

>They are buying cash and paying for it with future income.

Yes, that's what interest is, and it often makes sense.

There's a lot of value of having something (that you buy with money) available to you now rather than in a couple of years - especially if the means to make money depends that item (be it a car, education, a tractor, a musical instrument, set of tools, or what not).

Also, there was a lot of value for me to travel when I was a grad student and had a much more flexible schedule - and, frankly, was younger. I wish I took out loans for that, paying them off now that I'm working full time would not be a burden.

But while you rob your future self by taking a loan, you can't donate anything to your former self no matter how much you have.

TL;DR: there's value for people in having the right things at the right time.

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