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U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

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Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#321

Post by Ididntdothis »

1shooner wrote: post #155
seiferteric wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is my thought as well. These universities have had very little incentive to cut costs for a long time and have padded out administrators and built opulent and unnecessary facilities driving costs ever upward. Universities used to be little more than professors and classrooms with very few administrators.

>Universities used to be little more than professors and classrooms with very few administrators. Correct. There was also no IT, counseling, healthcare, Title IX, and secondary public education was functional. Things are different now.

Counseling healthcare and secondary public education should be addressed somewhere else. University is the wrong place for that.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#322

Post by icebraining »

merpnderp wrote: post #195
t0mas88 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's a very short term solution. Because with low cost labor globalizing and moving out of the EU and US, you will either need more highly educated knowledge workers to be competitive or accept a bigger group in society get very low wages or unemployment.

If the workers were getting educations that were worthwhile, they wouldn't need the state to pay for them. No one cries for a doctor leaving school with $150k in loans, since their starting salary will likely be $150k. But yeah, the grandparent is right - the US's problem is non-dischargable loans which removed back pressure on schools to control cost.

> worthwhile

Well, worthwhile for whom? Just because the student won't capture an extra $150k from his university education, doesn't mean he won't produce that or more to the rest of society.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#323

Post by treis »

kaffeemitsahne wrote: post #232
afarrell wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the European version of SAT/ACT scores and AP tests?

I can only speak for the Netherlands, we have a tiered high school system, and you can enter most university programs with just a high school diploma of the highest tier.

That's known as "tracking" in the States and has a history of racial discrimination. There's little chance it will be implemented in the states.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#324

Post by tverbeure »

kansface wrote: post #171
stefano wrote: post #154

What I find funny in these discussions on HN is how most people seem to be completely oblivious to the obvious solution, proven to work in many developed countries around the world: have the state directly fund universities and don't charge tuition to students (or charge them a small amount). Why is the assumption "universities are private endeavours that should make a profit" something that goes unchallenged on HN?

Most colleges/universities are nonprofits and they still charge tens of thousands per semester. I will also point out that the European model is not free, universal college degrees for all - access is restricted behind rigorous entrance exams. Such a system would be politically untenable in the US wherein a growing movement wants to do away with all entry tests. What would actually happen in practice is that we would…

In Belgium, there are only entrance exams for the highest level engineering program, and some medical degrees. No entrance exams at all for anything else.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#325

Post by elverado »

privateSFacct wrote: post #302
kome wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> universal college degrees for all - access is restricted behind rigorous entrance exams. that's just not quite true in all major European countries I have a direct experience with.

It is true, you cannot get in without your Hochschulzugangsberechtigung (University Entrance Qualification). Can you name a SINGLE well known major university that does not have this and allows anyone a free education? I will post the requirements here. It is not open to all by any means - their are STRICT quotas.

In the US simply pronouncing that word would get you into some schools.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#326

Post by zip1234 »

stefano wrote: post #154

What I find funny in these discussions on HN is how most people seem to be completely oblivious to the obvious solution, proven to work in many developed countries around the world: have the state directly fund universities and don't charge tuition to students (or charge them a small amount). Why is the assumption "universities are private endeavours that should make a profit" something that goes unchallenged on HN?

Schools in the US didn't always cost so much. Tuition costs keep going up year after year at higher than inflation rates though. That is at schools that are subsidized by State or local governments.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#327

Post by riffraff »

kansface wrote: post #171
stefano wrote: post #154

What I find funny in these discussions on HN is how most people seem to be completely oblivious to the obvious solution, proven to work in many developed countries around the world: have the state directly fund universities and don't charge tuition to students (or charge them a small amount). Why is the assumption "universities are private endeavours that should make a profit" something that goes unchallenged on HN?

Most colleges/universities are nonprofits and they still charge tens of thousands per semester. I will also point out that the European model is not free, universal college degrees for all - access is restricted behind rigorous entrance exams. Such a system would be politically untenable in the US wherein a growing movement wants to do away with all entry tests. What would actually happen in practice is that we would…

It depends, most university courses in Italy don't have a strict access exam for example, or they only do in some some universities.

I don't think there is a European standardisation on hard entrance exams and limited numbers.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#328

Post by hintymad »

kansface wrote: post #171
stefano wrote: post #154

What I find funny in these discussions on HN is how most people seem to be completely oblivious to the obvious solution, proven to work in many developed countries around the world: have the state directly fund universities and don't charge tuition to students (or charge them a small amount). Why is the assumption "universities are private endeavours that should make a profit" something that goes unchallenged on HN?

Most colleges/universities are nonprofits and they still charge tens of thousands per semester. I will also point out that the European model is not free, universal college degrees for all - access is restricted behind rigorous entrance exams. Such a system would be politically untenable in the US wherein a growing movement wants to do away with all entry tests. What would actually happen in practice is that we would…

Very true. And what works in Europe will not work for the US because 1. No kids should be left behind, so let's dumb down the test. 2. Kids should have stress-free life and academia is for boring people, so let's dumb dow the curriculum. 3. Math is racism. STEM for sure is racism. As Seattle educator put it, why don't we teach kids aboriginal math, and tests are surely racism. So, let's get rid of entrance exam and possibly reduce course work on model civilization.

With all the progress in civil rights, charging hefty intuition is the only way to go

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#329

Post by stan_rogers »

wolco wrote: post #298
mam2 wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I will also point out that the European model is not free, universal college degrees for all - access is restricted behind rigorous entrance exams WHAT ?? Not. at. all. I'm french and university is almost FREE (never more than 1000 euros a year and mostly around 300) for anyone with the A-level, at any age. Yeah of course there are exams like for any diploma in the entire world but there are not "super rigorous" es…

The cost he mentions is the A average you have. If you had a C or D average you would not have made it in.

Language problem: A-level isn't an A average. The post you are replying to was written in British-compatible English and you read it in an American-compatible dialect. Think of it as a "full high school" education, as opposed to the early-leaving program for immediate employment or trade school (which in England would be a GCSE, or O-level in former times). Here in Ontario, Canada, we used to have a Grade 13 for university educattion qualification; in Quebec, one attends CEGEP between an abbreviated high school and university.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#330

Post by user5994461 »

bilbo0s wrote: post #231
kansface wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most colleges/universities are nonprofits and they still charge tens of thousands per semester. I will also point out that the European model is not free, universal college degrees for all - access is restricted behind rigorous entrance exams. Such a system would be politically untenable in the US wherein a growing movement wants to do away with all entry tests. What would actually happen in practice is that we would…

> restricted behind rigorous entrance exams I don't know which nations you're talking about, but I'm not certain that I'd call entrance exams in France "rigorous". But the entire system is different than in the US, so I guess maybe it's not comparable? In any case, trying to get a perfect score on an SAT is way harder. Probably the whole reason an industry has popped up around increasing your score on the SAT/ACT/GRE…

It's similar. Pupils are evaluated on their last 2 years of high school. The bacalaureat (equivalent of the A level) doesn't factor in because it comes too late (July-August, after it's already decided where you will be going).

This can be very selective or not at all depending on where you're going, there are totally different tracks so it really can't be discussed in general (Law, Medicine, Engineering, Business, Art, trades, etc...). All are basically free, except business schools that are always private and super expensive.

I think that's the main difference between the US, US always have gigantic college of 30000 students that cover everything, whereas France is rather fragmented.

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