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L.A. temporarily suspends Uber’s permit to rent out electric scooters and bikes

latimes.com

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Re: L.A. temporarily suspends Uber’s permit to rent out electric scooters and bikes

#161

Post by chance_state »

angleofrepose wrote: post #149

The general conversation of the comments here is confusing. > Companies are required to transmit real-time data on all trips made within the city, including the start point, end point and travel time. This is not "real-time rider information" as mentioned by many comments, this is 'real-time scooter information'. > Uber has resisted the rule for months, arguing, with the backing of several data privacy organizations,…

> Uber has resisted the rule for months, arguing, with the backing of several data privacy organizations, that the city’s policy constitutes government surveillance. With minimal analysis, they say, the information could easily reveal where people live, work, socialize or worship.

I actually laughed out loud when I read this. Incredible that these companies have the audacity to take that stance.

"It is only we, the technocratic elite, that should be allowed to know where people live, work, socialize or worship, and to use that information to extract even more data and even more profit from these people. The city government should sweep the streets and mind its own business."

Re: L.A. temporarily suspends Uber’s permit to rent out electric scooters and bikes

#162

Post by wildmusings »

chance_state wrote: post #161
angleofrepose wrote: post #149

The general conversation of the comments here is confusing. > Companies are required to transmit real-time data on all trips made within the city, including the start point, end point and travel time. This is not "real-time rider information" as mentioned by many comments, this is 'real-time scooter information'. > Uber has resisted the rule for months, arguing, with the backing of several data privacy organizations,…

> Uber has resisted the rule for months, arguing, with the backing of several data privacy organizations, that the city’s policy constitutes government surveillance. With minimal analysis, they say, the information could easily reveal where people live, work, socialize or worship. I actually laughed out loud when I read this. Incredible that these companies have the audacity to take that stance. "It is only we, the t…

I’m confused that HN is suddenly enthralled with giving real time location data to the government. There was actually a recent Supreme Court case that extended Fourth Amendment protections to such data.

Re: L.A. temporarily suspends Uber’s permit to rent out electric scooters and bikes

#163

Post by wildmusings »

michaelt wrote: post #3

I guess I don't see any way a dockless bike/scooter rental scheme can be compatible with privacy. Their need to know where available bikes are, and to be able to detect thefts makes it hard to imagine they could work without GPS tracking. And as soon as you know who rented what bike when, and where each bike went, you're going to start knowing customers' homes, workplaces and places of worship. Although the governmen…

Anyone with a cell phone in their pocket is giving their real time location data to private companies. And I’m very happy that the government can’t just access it without a warrant.

Re: L.A. temporarily suspends Uber’s permit to rent out electric scooters and bikes

#164

Post by JohnFen »

Allower wrote: post #20
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I guess I don't see any way a dockless bike/scooter rental scheme can be compatible with privacy. Their need to know where available bikes are, and to be able to detect thefts makes it hard to imagine they could work without GPS tracking. I fail to understand why it's an issue if the government has this data but people are okay with Uber having it. Surely trusting the government is a more reasonable policy?

>Surely trusting the government is a more reasonable policy? Somebody clearly didn't learn anything about history..

History tells us that large corporations are not actually any better (and in many ways are worse) than governments when it comes to this sort of stuff.

Re: L.A. temporarily suspends Uber’s permit to rent out electric scooters and bikes

#165

Post by icebraining »

epistasis wrote: post #50
mdorazio wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you worry about Google having that same data? If you use google maps on a regular basis they know where you live, work, eat, travel, hang out with friends, and which routes you take when.

I avoid using Google Maps for precisely this reason. I'm less concerned about Uber or a local government having that data, far far less concerned. Uber rates as slightly more concerning than a government, because Uber will likely try to monetize it when/if their current business model fails to deliver profits to Wall Street.

Whereas the government will just share it with private companies and leak it: https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2019/07/10/data-breach-la-co...

Re: L.A. temporarily suspends Uber’s permit to rent out electric scooters and bikes

#166

Post by chance_state »

wildmusings wrote: post #162
chance_state wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Uber has resisted the rule for months, arguing, with the backing of several data privacy organizations, that the city’s policy constitutes government surveillance. With minimal analysis, they say, the information could easily reveal where people live, work, socialize or worship. I actually laughed out loud when I read this. Incredible that these companies have the audacity to take that stance. "It is only we, the t…

I’m confused that HN is suddenly enthralled with giving real time location data to the government. There was actually a recent Supreme Court case that extended Fourth Amendment protections to such data.

If you read my comment as being "enthralled with giving real time location data to the government", I would encourage you to read it again.

I was merely pointing out the irony and hypocrisy of a company like Uber, for god's sake, trying to dodge regulation by crying privacy.

Re: L.A. temporarily suspends Uber’s permit to rent out electric scooters and bikes

#167

Post by malandrew »

salawat wrote: post #110

Don't taxi, bus, and trucking companies do this? I always thought any public transit actor had to do this to provide data to be used by DoT for traffic engineering. Like I know that traffic engineers tweak limits of public transport asset density as part of planning traffic flows. I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure this is just Uber getting rolled into the infrastructure they should have been participating in anyway…

> it's also not surprising at all that a transit service provider would have to guarantee to a locality that they can locate their assets.

That requirement can easily be met by occasional random spot checks a few times a month. There's no need for realtime reporting.

Re: L.A. temporarily suspends Uber’s permit to rent out electric scooters and bikes

#168

Post by arbie »

salawat wrote: post #110

Don't taxi, bus, and trucking companies do this? I always thought any public transit actor had to do this to provide data to be used by DoT for traffic engineering. Like I know that traffic engineers tweak limits of public transport asset density as part of planning traffic flows. I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure this is just Uber getting rolled into the infrastructure they should have been participating in anyway…

Public transit exposes everyone's full routes, anyway.

Metrocards can lead back to the payment card used for the purchase, and buses (which also record passenger ingress/egress) can remember all swiped Metrocards.

Re: L.A. temporarily suspends Uber’s permit to rent out electric scooters and bikes

#169

Post by angleofrepose »

chance_state wrote: post #161
angleofrepose wrote: post #149

The general conversation of the comments here is confusing. > Companies are required to transmit real-time data on all trips made within the city, including the start point, end point and travel time. This is not "real-time rider information" as mentioned by many comments, this is 'real-time scooter information'. > Uber has resisted the rule for months, arguing, with the backing of several data privacy organizations,…

> Uber has resisted the rule for months, arguing, with the backing of several data privacy organizations, that the city’s policy constitutes government surveillance. With minimal analysis, they say, the information could easily reveal where people live, work, socialize or worship. I actually laughed out loud when I read this. Incredible that these companies have the audacity to take that stance. "It is only we, the t…

haha! This is exactly what my EDIT addresses, I found your comment after updating. I completely agree.

Re: L.A. temporarily suspends Uber’s permit to rent out electric scooters and bikes

#170

Post by chance_state »

snagglegaggle wrote: post #80
tyxodiwktis wrote: post #64

The core issue is that ridership data is a key piece the cities need to craft a tax on ride-sharing, and to tailor the tax to help their financially challenged public transit entities. Uber knows that if they give up scooter use data the city will immediately request it for ride sharing as well. The privacy question conveniently aligns with Uber’s position, but I doubt that this is Uber’s core concern vs avoiding eve…

I can't really tell your opinion, so I guess this is for other readers: the government can be entitled to regulate an activity but at the same time not be entitled to any means of actually enforcing that regulation. A prime example is anti-sodomy laws.† In the earlier US laws would be enforcement tested and disposed of if they were intractable to actually implement; unfortunately now it seems like laws are made, and…

Can someone downvoting this person's post explain why?
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