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Should employers be blind to private beliefs? (Richard Dawkins)

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Re: Should employers be blind to private beliefs? (Richard Dawkins)

#41
post #30
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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Though I'm an atheist, I'd disagree that a good scientist should be agnostic. The reason is segmentation, along with a widespread belief that religious beliefs are beyond measurement in the physical world. That said, I disagree with your assertion that the burden is on science to prove the non-existence of the god(s). In fact, there's a distinction often drawn between "strict" and "soft" (or empirical) atheism. A lot…

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Re: Should employers be blind to private beliefs? (Richard Dawkins)

#42
post #31

Even if a doctor's belief in the stork theory of reproduction is technically irrelevant to his competence as an eye surgeon, it tells you something about him. It is revealing. It is relevant in a general way to whether we would wish him to treat us or teach us. A patient could reasonably shrink from entrusting her eyes to a doctor whose beliefs (admittedly in the apparently unrelated field of obstetrics) are so catac…

It's not so much the beliefs that people hold, it's whether or not they stick to those beliefs in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary. If they do, then their reasoning is not based in reality, which makes any other reasoning they do that is also purportedly based in reality suspect . A Creationist can not perform what he thinks is correct science without performing what the rest of the world is incorrect sc…

The last part is a very Western value set - that we should "base our beliefs on facts".

Other cultures are a lot less pragmatic, and are willing to ignore an absence of facts as long as they can get results. Being dogmatic seems to date back to the Greeks, at least.

Still both sides (the young earthers and the hard athiests) are both pretty dogmatic.

I'd say that both sides should chill out. If a guy wants a job that they doesn't quite believe in, as long as they're capable, why stop them? On the other hand, if you can't get a job because you really don't believe in it, aren't there other jobs out there?

Re: Should employers be blind to private beliefs? (Richard Dawkins)

#43
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's too much grey to make this black and white. What would you say to a closeted gay politician pushing anti-gay legislation? Would you not consider that person a fraud, just like someone saying their research is based on the universe being 13 billion years old when they don't really believe that?

If that politician is truly representing his constituency, then he is not a fraud and is doing what he is paid to do.

Politicians are supposed to lead, not follow.

Re: Should employers be blind to private beliefs? (Richard Dawkins)

#44
Why does this discussion always go one way? Do people care if a church discriminates against priests or reverends that do not believe in God, the virgin birth, transubstantiation, or the resurrection (where it applies)?

I have never seen evidence of protests against that kind of discrimination. And considering the are a pseudo-public entity (tax exempt), it seems very similar.

/me is disappointed with self for commenting on stupid flamebait link.

Re: Should employers be blind to private beliefs? (Richard Dawkins)

#45

This obsession with unearthing people's private beliefs and actively using them as grounds to discriminate against them, seems quite Orwellian to me. Why not just evaluate how well an employee does the job she is paid to do, and not worry about the ideas she expresses outside of work, or the activities she engages in? Dawkins simply seems to be looking for ways of making life more difficult for religious people. If t…

The article isn't about religion so much as it is about beliefs. Does being a religious belief make a belief better? The current laws seek to protect religious beliefs over non-religious ones.

Basically, why is it okay to reject people based on some beliefs but not others?

Re: Should employers be blind to private beliefs? (Richard Dawkins)

#46
post #16

This obsession with unearthing people's private beliefs and actively using them as grounds to discriminate against them, seems quite Orwellian to me. Why not just evaluate how well an employee does the job she is paid to do, and not worry about the ideas she expresses outside of work, or the activities she engages in? Dawkins simply seems to be looking for ways of making life more difficult for religious people. If t…

There's too much grey to make this black and white. What would you say to a closeted gay politician pushing anti-gay legislation? Would you not consider that person a fraud, just like someone saying their research is based on the universe being 13 billion years old when they don't really believe that?

Why would that person be a fraud? He might honestly believe homosexuality is wrong, but simply be unwilling to control his urges.

For a non-moralistic example of this behavior, consider a fat person who wishes to lose weight for the selfish purpose of attracting sexual partners, but is unwilling to put down the bacon. Is this person a fraud when they say people should lose weight?

Re: Should employers be blind to private beliefs? (Richard Dawkins)

#47
post #32

I have been following astrophysicist Hugh Ross for some time. For a very intelligent exploration of creationist ideas (that very decidedly do not accept that the earth is only 10,000 years old) check out Reasons To Believe: http://www.reasons.org/

I'm reluctant to agree that a website with drivel like "does this synthetic life form point to intelligent agency at every step of the way?" proudly featured on its front page is intelligent.

What that web site does is start by assuming that the Bible is completely true, and then try to retrofit as much of science as they can onto their central Belief That Must Not Change.

They may well be intelligent, but that doesn't make them sane.

Re: Should employers be blind to private beliefs? (Richard Dawkins)

#48
Putting aside the question of the legal requirements (which can necessarily only approximate the ethical requirements), isn't it reasonable to just say that he should be hired if and only if the hiring committee thinks his beliefs will not unacceptably interfere with his job (including, for instance, the possibility that he is a "fraud")? Dawkins trots out all these extreme cases where we would be very worried in order about job performance to argue that religious beliefs should be fair game, but doesn't convince me at all that "if a young earth creationist is 'breathtakingly above the other candidates', then the other candidates must be so bad that we should re-advertise and start afresh." Rather, it just advertises a naivete about how flawed we humans are. If we rejected every candidate who has some self-contradictory beliefs because we take it "as a revealing indicator that there is something wrong with his head", we wouldn't be able to fill any jobs. Anyone who thinks they have reached some sort of platonic ideal of rationality---and that those who haven't should be ignored---is deluding themself, whether or not they may be more consistent.

Re: Should employers be blind to private beliefs? (Richard Dawkins)

#49
In the past, a scientist religious belief didn't affect his contribution. I don't see how targeting them now will benefit the scientific community. Carl Gauss was a devote Christian; what are we suppose to do if he existed now, not recognize him?

"I am convinced of the afterlife, independent of theology. If the world is rationally constructed, there must be an afterlife." - Godel

Maybe Godel wasn't logical for his beliefs?

"An equation for me has no meaning, unless it represents a thought of God." -Srinivasa Ramanujan

Maybe they shouldn't have invite Ramanujan to work at Cambridge?

I find these thoughts disturbing, to judge someone's potential to contribute based on his religion.

Re: Should employers be blind to private beliefs? (Richard Dawkins)

#50

This obsession with unearthing people's private beliefs and actively using them as grounds to discriminate against them, seems quite Orwellian to me. Why not just evaluate how well an employee does the job she is paid to do, and not worry about the ideas she expresses outside of work, or the activities she engages in? Dawkins simply seems to be looking for ways of making life more difficult for religious people. If t…

The article isn't about religion so much as it is about beliefs. Does being a religious belief make a belief better? The current laws seek to protect religious beliefs over non-religious ones. Basically, why is it okay to reject people based on some beliefs but not others?

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