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Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

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Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#311

Post by jai_ »

netok wrote: post #288
mb_72 wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious as the way I see it it's very often China who is the 'initiator', eg internment of Muslims, stealing of territory in South China sea, debt-trap diplomacy, and so forth. Presuming that you are aware of these occurrences, do you agree with your government's positions and actions, and - if not - what actions, if any, do you take to make it clear your opposition? The Chinese government is, IMO, massively over sen…

As a chinese, this kind of comment makes me hate the west even more. I have no control over my government. Zero. 0. Do you understand the concept of 0? Thats the amount of influence I have over any government matter. And you people being racist pos because there is nothing I can do about my gov. Wtf do you want?

Why do you feel that Chinese citizens as a whole have no influence of the actions of their government?

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#312

Post by sokoloff »

coldtea wrote: post #301
mschuster91 wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you in USA? No, Germany, which also faces massive problems with Chinese buy-outs and industrial spionage. > Should other countries refuse to employ USA citizens because of actions of the government - things like pulling out of Syria to enable the Turkish murder of the Kurds to continue. I would wish so, but I'm realistic enough to know no government wants to put themselves into the spotlight of Trump's Twitter…

> No, Germany, which also faces massive problems with Chinese buy-outs and industrial spionage. Well, Germany has gased 6 million people, started two world wars, caused more than 40-50 million deaths, and continues to strong arm EU and have hegemonical aspirations... Perhaps they too should be cut out of international trade or nuked just to be sure? The allies had the right idea, split them into two countries and mak…

The Germans of today have as much to do with the Holocaust as I do with American slavery.

Should Germany have been isolated in 1939? Sure. Does that apply 80 years later when things have changed? Of course not.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#313

Post by ecmascript »

EugeneOZ wrote: post #310
ecmascript wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is their action discrimination? That's silly. Obviously it would be discrimination if they wouldn't hire people because they have a specific country of birth but that is not what they are doing. They are afraid that the governments of China and Russia could easily force people who live in those countries to give up data. That is a valid concern since that is happening in China. I know how it affects the economic.…

I live in Europe and I use/consume things made in Europe every day. And instead of arguing to me, just read if protectionism was ever a good decision - just from the history. > I rather pay more for something produced in the EU than to have something shipped from China just to save a few bucks. Protectionism works quite contrary, so you do not support it anyway :)

Yes, it certainly is a good decision. For example, if we had no protections like customs China would easily subsidize any market they wish to gain monopoly of the market in question.

This is happening even WITH protectionism like customs and tolls. Chinas government subsidize stuff like steel production which makes it hard for companies like SSAB in Sweden to compete with them since they sell their steel cheaper than the cost to produce it.

How shall countries protect themselves from countries that act like that without protecting their market? It's extremely naive to think that countries that are rough dictatorships will play fair and nice.

EU should have A LOT higher customs against countries like China. Trading with them on a fair level gives them too much economic control which is good for us in the short term but incredibly bad in the long term.

That is why south park can make an episode like "Band in China" today because we have already given them a lot of control.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#314

Post by Nasrudith »

EastToWest wrote: post #268
mb_72 wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious as the way I see it it's very often China who is the 'initiator', eg internment of Muslims, stealing of territory in South China sea, debt-trap diplomacy, and so forth. Presuming that you are aware of these occurrences, do you agree with your government's positions and actions, and - if not - what actions, if any, do you take to make it clear your opposition? The Chinese government is, IMO, massively over sen…

How do you expect a Chinese to respond to this kind of "Have you stopped beating your wife" questions? Whether some of the view points are valid in the first place (at least the second or third one) is deeply contested to Chinese. If you're just parroting Western media view points without showing at least some understanding of Chinese view points, you will likely not get any genuine answers.

To be fair they actually have beaten their wife into the hospital several times metaphorically - so it stops being a leading question so much as one which acknowledges the obvious.

Those who aren't outright dissidents seem to have an exceptionalism complex where Chinese X is different so no criticism can apply - combined with Not Invented Here syndrome. From what I have heard from those through VPN tunnels they are accutely aware that they aren't anything special.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#315

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

mieseratte wrote: post #254
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never thought I'd see this level of xenophobia becoming widely acceptable in the United States. For everything educated Americans loathe about Trump, the one thing they've taken on board from him is fear of the Yellow Peril - which is probably the most dangerous aspect of his Presidency.

It’s not xenopohobia, it’s a hard problem. China actively exploits American tolerance for their own gain, and we have no good way to stem corporate espionage other than a blanket ban. Even then, good old corruption of non-Chinese is still possible.

I'm sorry, targeting Chinese people on Green Cards is xenophobia. I'm not interested in whatever rationalizations are given for this sort of discriminatory behavior. The US is sadly headed down a path towards socially acceptable racial discrimination, justified by the new bogeyman - China.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#317

Post by diggan »

teknologist wrote: post #258
avaika wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. It also would be nice to provide a form where clients would be able to select race, sex, age, sexual orientation, religion and other employee parameters as they wish to build a real dream team.

Just a simple checkbox for "lives in a data-hoovering authoritarian regime" would be enough!

Basically all services in the US + Europe (and Russia, and China, and more) disappears with that inclusion.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#318

Post by computerex »

blaesus wrote: post #225

I am Chinese living in China. Nationalism is on the rise lately in China, not just for domestic reasons, but also as an reaction to nationalistic moves from "the West" like this one. It's a recurring theme, not just in governmental propaganda, but also in daily conversations, that "the West" would talk about fairness and justice then commit blatant discrimination and double standards. As a founder of a tech company b…

Nationalism has always been high in China ever since the CCP took control. Not being a nationalist would be a good way to suddenly disappear off the face of the Earth.

China has always had double standards. They make it hell for U.S companies to do business there. The only thing that has changed is that the U.S has started pushing back somewhat as of late, but things are still currently in favor of China.

When China makes draconian laws like this: https://www.chinalawblog.com/2019/09/chinas-new-cybersecurit...

Is it really a surprise that companies that care about their customer privacy would be hesitant in dealing with China? Is it inconceivable that data breaches and unauthorized access of data/systems could happen through Chinese employees? These are some of the things you have to think about.

Maybe the Chinese government should look at the year (2019) and realize that personal liberties, sovereignty and privacy are important to the "west". If China is going to disrespect our important values, than what you are seeing in this Gitlab discussion is bound to take place for companies that are sensitive about protecting their customers.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#319

Post by diggan »

EugeneOZ wrote: post #271

I live in Spain but was born in Russia, I moved 3 years ago because I hate current russian government and still I hope russian and chinese companies and engineers will boycott Gitlab in response. Such offensive nationalism should not be forgiven.

You moved from a openly repressive country to another secretly repressive country. Congratulations ;) Hope you have the possibility to freely move around Europe, as you'll probably will need to use it in the future

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#320

Post by sajithdilshan »

TobbenTM wrote: post #289
sajithdilshan wrote: post #243

This is just ridiculous. It is truly unfair to discriminate people based on the country of their birth. It's not like they had a choice. Am I the only one who thinks that both China and Russia have spies who are not native Chinese or Russians? And are people really naive to believe that a stupid decision like this would prevent China or Russia from trying to obtain the information they need (if they really want it)

You might have misread the issue at hand, this is not discriminating on country of birth, but country of residence. You can choose not to continue living in the above mentioned countries, and this would no longer be a problem it seems.

Ultimately it affects the developers who are born in China and Russia as well. Not everyone can afford migrating to a "white listed" country due to various reasons like family, friends and other commitments.
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