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Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

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Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#301

Post by coldtea »

mschuster91 wrote: post #219
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you in USA? Should other countries refuse to employ USA citizens because of actions of the government - things like pulling out of Syria to enable the Turkish murder of the Kurds to continue. >China has been using our money ... The best way is to vote with your money then?

> Are you in USA? No, Germany, which also faces massive problems with Chinese buy-outs and industrial spionage. > Should other countries refuse to employ USA citizens because of actions of the government - things like pulling out of Syria to enable the Turkish murder of the Kurds to continue. I would wish so, but I'm realistic enough to know no government wants to put themselves into the spotlight of Trump's Twitter…

>No, Germany, which also faces massive problems with Chinese buy-outs and industrial spionage.

Well, Germany has gased 6 million people, started two world wars, caused more than 40-50 million deaths, and continues to strong arm EU and have hegemonical aspirations...

Perhaps they too should be cut out of international trade or nuked just to be sure? The allies had the right idea, split them into two countries and make sure to keep their heads down...

Does that sound OK?

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#302

Post by anoncake »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #74
burfog wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congratulations on taking a step in the right direction, even if it is a very small step. Nobody else seems to take the threat seriously, somewhat excepting defense contractors of course. I can understand being reluctant to deal with the full extent of the problem. Somebody from China, with a family in China and subject to Chinese law, does not cease to be a security threat by moving to the USA and getting a green ca…

In china, not from China. The former is easy to justify, and would affect even Americans of non Chinese descent. The latter would be incredibly difficult to justify, and could easily be seen as unwarranted discrimination.

Discriminating someone because of their Chinese ethnicity would be hard to justify but what about Chinese citizenship (especially if it's the only one) or ties to China like family living there? Those would make someone vulnerable to pressure by the Chinese government.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#303

Post by jka »

blaesus wrote: post #225

I am Chinese living in China. Nationalism is on the rise lately in China, not just for domestic reasons, but also as an reaction to nationalistic moves from "the West" like this one. It's a recurring theme, not just in governmental propaganda, but also in daily conversations, that "the West" would talk about fairness and justice then commit blatant discrimination and double standards. As a founder of a tech company b…

Agreed; it's unfortunate to see companies considering acting this way. In this case it seems like GitLab are doing this for a single customer, so I'd bet it's caused by a desire to meet sales quotas and/or financial goals, rather than fundamental company strategy or policy.

Using that lens, this is a short-term financially-motivated attempt to change company hiring/access policy, which in turn provides justification for the anti-Western sentiment you mention.

In my opinion this is a restriction that should be the customer's responsibility to enact, if they choose to - which means that GitLab should pause and build access controls which allow the customer to configure (and ideally audit) who at GitLab has access.

What is excellent and commendable is that GitLab is able to have much of this discussion in the open; because at many other organizations, this would all have happened behind closed doors.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#304

Post by mola »

mschuster91 wrote: post #203
jakobegger wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I on the other hand think that splitting countries into allies and enemies is stupid. China is a huge country, and excluding a billion people from your company just because their government does questionable things sounds like a pretty bad idea. If you are really concerned about the confidentiality of your data, don't store it unencrypted in some SaaS where every customer service rep has full access to all your data.…

[flagged]

They didn't use free trade against you, they used the American corporate greed and bottom line mentality. It was a cooperation. We got plenty of cheap shiny plastic nikanks to keep complient while corporations sold out on local economies. Now that it is proven to be unsustainable they beat the war drums and want us to fight for them.

This is an old story

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#305

Post by ecmascript »

EugeneOZ wrote: post #278
ecmascript wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? For me this is a big reason on why I want to use Gitlab. I am european and I think you're being pretty stupid. You celebrate that the company you work for hire people in Russia rather from where you live. You seem to fail to realize that if all companies in your country would do that you would soon find yourself out of a job since there is always some place cheaper. No one is saying russians aren't knowledgeabl…

Maybe you should read more about "protectionism", "nationalism" and "discrimination" - not just definitions, but how they affect economic.

How is their action discrimination? That's silly. Obviously it would be discrimination if they wouldn't hire people because they have a specific country of birth but that is not what they are doing.

They are afraid that the governments of China and Russia could easily force people who live in those countries to give up data. That is a valid concern since that is happening in China.

I know how it affects the economic. Just look at where stuff is produced. It's hard to find things that are produced in Europe or the states. You may say that this is a good thing but I disagree, the same thing could easily happen with software and that would be a dark day in my opinion.

I don't care if that would make me "poorer" in the sense that I can have less material goods. It would still be a better world in my view and better for the environment. I rather pay more for something produced in the EU than to have something shipped from China just to save a few bucks.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#306

Post by Nasrudith »

mb_72 wrote: post #242
blaesus wrote: post #225

I am Chinese living in China. Nationalism is on the rise lately in China, not just for domestic reasons, but also as an reaction to nationalistic moves from "the West" like this one. It's a recurring theme, not just in governmental propaganda, but also in daily conversations, that "the West" would talk about fairness and justice then commit blatant discrimination and double standards. As a founder of a tech company b…

Curious as the way I see it it's very often China who is the 'initiator', eg internment of Muslims, stealing of territory in South China sea, debt-trap diplomacy, and so forth. Presuming that you are aware of these occurrences, do you agree with your government's positions and actions, and - if not - what actions, if any, do you take to make it clear your opposition? The Chinese government is, IMO, massively over sen…

Really aggressors project and victim blame as standard practice to justify themselves and their travesties. This goes back to Rome's war with Carthage and probably well before then.

Nationalists of all stripes get very angry when you point out their nation's crimes. Poland made outright illegal to point out that there were in fact Polish collaborators in the Holocaust for instance. It is true that the country was overwhelmingly the victim and Nazis were responsible but cutting off this self reflection only looks sinister. When 'face' culture is involved it seems to be further. Numerous sister city relationships were ended unilaterally by Japan for acknowledging the "comfort women" - ironically losing far more face internationally. Add in outright totalitarianism under a dictator and criticism is seen as an outright threat.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#307

Post by aasasd »

So. As a freelancer living in one of the scary red states and seeing a lot of US people and companies in the potential client crowd, should I now start looking for opportunities more in Asia, South America and Africa? Is the Gitlab client's sentiment spreading among Western companies?

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#308

Post by mrpopo »

netok wrote: post #288
mb_72 wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious as the way I see it it's very often China who is the 'initiator', eg internment of Muslims, stealing of territory in South China sea, debt-trap diplomacy, and so forth. Presuming that you are aware of these occurrences, do you agree with your government's positions and actions, and - if not - what actions, if any, do you take to make it clear your opposition? The Chinese government is, IMO, massively over sen…

As a chinese, this kind of comment makes me hate the west even more. I have no control over my government. Zero. 0. Do you understand the concept of 0? Thats the amount of influence I have over any government matter. And you people being racist pos because there is nothing I can do about my gov. Wtf do you want?

I am sorry that you think like that, but the government is nothing without its people. The moment you start saying there is nothing you can do is the moment you lose. Russian dissidents etc. Chinese middle-class is complacently trading freedom for comfort. American and European middle-class too, for that matter.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#309

Post by EugeneOZ »

rimliu wrote: post #300
EugeneOZ wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you should read more about "protectionism", "nationalism" and "discrimination" - not just definitions, but how they affect economic.

Does that reading include Russia's plan to create their own internet free of influence from the rotten West?

"Influence"? Lol :) They want to isolate own people from any information, it's pure dictatorship, not related to anything I enlisted.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#310

Post by EugeneOZ »

ecmascript wrote: post #305
EugeneOZ wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you should read more about "protectionism", "nationalism" and "discrimination" - not just definitions, but how they affect economic.

How is their action discrimination? That's silly. Obviously it would be discrimination if they wouldn't hire people because they have a specific country of birth but that is not what they are doing. They are afraid that the governments of China and Russia could easily force people who live in those countries to give up data. That is a valid concern since that is happening in China. I know how it affects the economic.…

I live in Europe and I use/consume things made in Europe every day. And instead of arguing to me, just read if protectionism was ever a good decision - just from the history.

> I rather pay more for something produced in the EU than to have something shipped from China just to save a few bucks.

Protectionism works quite contrary, so you do not support it anyway :)

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