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Electron apps cannot be submitted to the Apple store

david.dev

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Re: Electron apps cannot be submitted to the Apple store

#301

Post by Klonoar »

thomascgalvin wrote: post #111
saagarjha wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their review process is automated, and nobody really knows what will trigger the Ban Bot into deleting your account. While review is automated, I would like to believe that account deletion isn't. > There is also no apparent way to scan your own app to make sure that you are not in violation of this issue. So you're in a position where the only way to see if you are in compliance is to submit to Apple, but that may…

> While review is automated, I would like to believe that account deletion isn't. I would like to believe that, too, but I don't. > They literally tell you the symbols that you're not supposed to use: it's easy to check if your dependencies are using them. Sure, if you have a better-than-average understanding of C (or Objective C), and know how to use the command line to grep strings out of a binary, and know all of…

(You're arguing with an Apple fanboy, one who's also previously worked for Apple and forgets to disclose it in discussions like these)

Re: Electron apps cannot be submitted to the Apple store

#302

Post by Tepix »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #272
ptlu wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a user of macOS, I want developers who makes apps to use public APIs that will be supported so I don't get breakages on system upgrades or migrations.

It doesn't really matter if it's public or not. The fact is people are using those APIs and there's nothing that can be done about that. Nonchalantly breaking stuff and rejecting applications actively subtracts from the value of their platforms and could alienate developers. Microsoft had private APIs and data structures too and it didn't stop developers from using them. However, their approach to that was different:…

> The fact is people are using those APIs and there's nothing that can be done about that.

Apple is proving you wrong.

Re: Electron apps cannot be submitted to the Apple store

#303

Post by httpsterio »

rdevnull wrote: post #91
roblabla wrote: post #3

Well, why the hell is electron/chromium using private APIs? That seems like the real problem here...

I just wonder they bump major releases very quickly --now is 7.0.1 and basically a lot of stuff you find, including courses are obsolete and a lot of deprecation -- and yet they didn't take this seriously enough.

This is not an Electron issue as Apple has deprecated these APIs and the issues go back for the past few years worth of Electron releases. We just bumped our Electron version from 4.0.5 to 6.0.12 and we just needed to add a single line of code.

Re: Electron apps cannot be submitted to the Apple store

#304

Post by DonHopkins »

cageface wrote: post #209
thomascgalvin wrote: post #22

The basic concept isn't too disturbing; Apple packages private APIs that have no guaranteed behavior or expectation of support. If you depend on those APIs, it's very possible that your app will break in a future OS update. This is conceptually no different than calling something in the sun.* packages in Java. For years it was ok, and then ... it wasn't. This, however, is draconian: > Continuing to use or conceal non…

Getting out of iOS development and back into web dev was the best career decision I ever made. I feel like I escaped an abusive relationship. So much of what's wrong with computing and tech right now stems directly or indirectly from the culture at Apple.

I got the first warning sign that I was entering into an abusive relationship early on in 2007 when I tried to sign up for the Apple Developer Program from Europe, and Apple INSISTED that I FAX my developer program application in to them.

Re: Electron apps cannot be submitted to the Apple store

#305

Post by DonHopkins »

saagarjha wrote: post #266
drenvuk wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone here considers Apple's abuse of private APIs vs developers an ok thing. I will never subject myself to their app store if I can help it.

I'm fairly sure a number of App Store developers browse Hacker News.

Many of us frequently subject ourselves to all kinds of abuse that we don't consider an ok thing.

It's shameful but eh, it's a living.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyxJ7GKGFG0

Re: Electron apps cannot be submitted to the Apple store

#307

Post by DonHopkins »

analog31 wrote: post #210
kjksf wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How short are memories. I remember how Microsoft was vilified for supposedly having secret Windows APIs that allowed Microsoft apps to get better performance. That was mostly made up and even if such APIs existed, any program could have used it. Even at the height of corporate arrogance Microsoft didn't dream of banning developers for using undocumented APIs. Apple seems intent on becoming more evil than Microsoft ev…

From what I recall, this practice goes back to the original 68k Apple Mac. The prehistory is that developers for the Apple ][ had access to third party documentation, and made extensive use of unofficial system variables and entry points. The result was that it became impossible for Apple to update their own system without breaking popular apps and getting blamed for doing so. It turned Apple ][ technology into a dea…

But Applesoft had perfectly fine extension mechanisms: "&" and "USR()" and "PEEK" and "POKE" and "CALL"! What more do you need?

https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.3758/BF03203836.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applesoft_BASIC#Extensions

http://nparker.llx.com/a2/as.addons.html

"C is just PEEK and POKE with syntactic sugar." -- Bill Joy

Re: Electron apps cannot be submitted to the Apple store

#308

Post by ryandrake »

root_axis wrote: post #224
Scapeghost wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dependencies of your dependencies! Imagine installing a library that depends on a couple dozen libraries in its own right. You may not have time to inspect every single node in the dependency graph. Excuse me, are you, the developer, telling me, a user, that you don't know what you're giving me to run on my computer?

Is that a joke? Surely you aren't suggesting that developers should have full knowledge of all transitive dependencies that compose their application stack.

Honestly, it boggles the mind to think that a responsible developer would just pull in some 3rd party dependency without auditing what it does/calls and what other sub-dependencies it has, and then ship it as their product that their business relies on.

Everywhere I’ve ever worked, adopting a dependent library was a HUGE DEAL. You don’t do it lightly. You have to know what’s in it, know what it calls, know what the license is, understand the increased security attack surface, measure how much bigger it makes your binary, measure any performance deltas, and so on. In bigger companies, you need to get all sorts of approvals... Who the heck are these companies where you just hook up the git submodule and wing it?

Re: Electron apps cannot be submitted to the Apple store

#309

Post by catalogia »

michaelmrose wrote: post #222
Scapeghost wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dependencies of your dependencies! Imagine installing a library that depends on a couple dozen libraries in its own right. You may not have time to inspect every single node in the dependency graph. Excuse me, are you, the developer, telling me, a user, that you don't know what you're giving me to run on my computer?

Hi my name is node_modules have you met me? If you invite me to a party I bring my 500 closest friends as my plus one! I just looked at the node_modules folder for a project that runs user configured code when your imap server gets a new mail via imap idle. It's called imapnotify and inside its node_modules dir I see it pulls in 549 js files. The majority are under 100 lines per file dozens are between 1 and 30. Cutt…

There are reasons forums known for being less diplomatic than HN often take delight in heaping scorn and ridicule on js devs. This is one of those reasons.
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