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Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

gitlab.com

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Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#171

Post by [deleted] »

dodobirdlord wrote: post #152
iiertiosas wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also learned a lot and some of the employees made great points. I’m wondering, can the US government legally issue a National Security Letter to an individual employee that forces them to comply and spy for them? If they can, does this also mean the employee has no legal recourse since NSLs must be kept secret?

> If they can, does this also mean the employee has no legal recourse since NSLs must be kept secret? No, because that would be unconstitutional. But the proceedings of objecting to a NSL similarly must be kept secret. There wouldn't be any point to the secret component of a NSL if the recipient could object and hash out the merits of the request in public court records.

[deleted]

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#173

Post by [deleted] »

mike_d wrote: post #144
PeterStuer wrote: post #138

Doesn't this directly imply non-US entities should have severe reservations about American SREs and Support Engineers?

That is just whataboutism. China has a long demonstrated history of using its intelligence services for the benefit of domestic corporations, as well as exploiting its citizens working overseas to aid in the same.

[deleted]

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#174

Post by gdy »

big_chungus wrote: post #90
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In china, not from China. The former is easy to justify, and would affect even Americans of non Chinese descent. The latter would be incredibly difficult to justify, and could easily be seen as unwarranted discrimination.

Well, technically it is discrimination, but not racism. I.e. you can still hire a Japanese developer, and with a Chinese regime change you might be able to hire Chinese developers. However, federal law prohibits discrimination based on national origin. This is a touchy subject, but maybe this no longer makes sense? As burfrog pointed out, a Chinese employee living in America isn't free from Chinese control; the gov't…

Better place them all into internment camps. Just in case.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#175

Post by jacquesm »

sytse wrote: post #21
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #19

I'm shocked (in a positive way) about the amount of transparency Gitlab provides. Even as a reader, it almost feels as if someone misconfigured the ACLs or I'm reading leaked internal documents, not an intentional decision to make this open. Some of the discussions seem highly sensitive, and yet it seems to work for them. Thank you, Gitlab, for being so open! I've learned a lot about compliance from just reading this…

Thanks! We try to be transparent by default and even when it is difficult. I think the OP is a good example of something that is hard to be transparent about because the decision isn't obvious and it takes discussion to come to the best conclusion.

I think the issue of a week ago was the harder one and I really commend you on walking that one back.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#176

Post by jacquesm »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #92
big_chungus wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, technically it is discrimination, but not racism. I.e. you can still hire a Japanese developer, and with a Chinese regime change you might be able to hire Chinese developers. However, federal law prohibits discrimination based on national origin. This is a touchy subject, but maybe this no longer makes sense? As burfrog pointed out, a Chinese employee living in America isn't free from Chinese control; the gov't…

It doesn’t matter. As long as a security clearance isn’t required, discriminating based on notational origin is a big no no from an ethical perspective, even if it was legal. I hope we learned our lesson during WW2.

> I hope we learned our lesson during WW2.

You can rest assured that we did not, I have zero doubt that if there ever was another war at that scale we'd have internment camps for nationals of the enemy before the end of that war.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#179

Post by breadandcrumbel »

>I'm shocked (in a positive way) about the amount of transparency Gitlab provides.

Same here. I was pretty surprised they sent an apologise email few days ago

Saying sorry after actions you made, show how they care about their users

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#180

Post by jakobegger »

burfog wrote: post #69
sytse wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! We try to be transparent by default and even when it is difficult. I think the OP is a good example of something that is hard to be transparent about because the decision isn't obvious and it takes discussion to come to the best conclusion.

Congratulations on taking a step in the right direction, even if it is a very small step. Nobody else seems to take the threat seriously, somewhat excepting defense contractors of course. I can understand being reluctant to deal with the full extent of the problem. Somebody from China, with a family in China and subject to Chinese law, does not cease to be a security threat by moving to the USA and getting a green ca…

I on the other hand think that splitting countries into allies and enemies is stupid. China is a huge country, and excluding a billion people from your company just because their government does questionable things sounds like a pretty bad idea.

If you are really concerned about the confidentiality of your data, don't store it unencrypted in some SaaS where every customer service rep has full access to all your data. At that point you're already so vulnerable that exluding potenential employees from a whole country is just pointless security theater that some suit with an MBA thought up to justify his position.

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