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Electron apps cannot be submitted to the Apple store

david.dev

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Re: Electron apps cannot be submitted to the Apple store

#61

Post by kjksf »

outworlder wrote: post #11

> I did write back to Apple trying to explain that I am using Electron and I can't really change any of these public-framework usage Yeah. So? By linking a framework that's using private APIs, this becomes your problem now. And Electron's problem, by extension. Go bug them, not Apple.

How short are memories.

I remember how Microsoft was vilified for supposedly having secret Windows APIs that allowed Microsoft apps to get better performance.

That was mostly made up and even if such APIs existed, any program could have used it.

Even at the height of corporate arrogance Microsoft didn't dream of banning developers for using undocumented APIs.

Apple seems intent on becoming more evil than Microsoft ever was.

At some point the goodwill they built as underdog making great products will run out and some government somewhere will take an anti-trust action.

I'm just hoping it'll happen sooner rather than later.

Re: Electron apps cannot be submitted to the Apple store

#62

Post by jaimex2 »

throwGuardian wrote: post #24
outworlder wrote: post #11

> I did write back to Apple trying to explain that I am using Electron and I can't really change any of these public-framework usage Yeah. So? By linking a framework that's using private APIs, this becomes your problem now. And Electron's problem, by extension. Go bug them, not Apple.

This summarizes Apple's attitude to developers. Eventually, you'll run foul of some obscure nonsensical Apple policy, and Apple will not hesitate to show you the finger. And Shame you for your dev choices.

Yep.

If you can't avoid Apple's stores then make damn sure you fall in line as they effectively own you.

Re: Electron apps cannot be submitted to the Apple store

#63

Post by bangonkeyboard »

saagarjha wrote: post #58
bangonkeyboard wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what native apps are now on the Mac: https://twitter.com/gruber/status/1140768216853164032 https://twitter.com/wongmjane/status/1182672138291032068

Those aren't native apps.

"Now it’s incredibly simple to start building a native Mac app from your current iPad app."

— https://developer.apple.com/mac-catalyst/

Literally every paragraph of copy on this page emphasizes them as native apps.

Re: Electron apps cannot be submitted to the Apple store

#65

Post by saagarjha »

thomascgalvin wrote: post #22

The basic concept isn't too disturbing; Apple packages private APIs that have no guaranteed behavior or expectation of support. If you depend on those APIs, it's very possible that your app will break in a future OS update. This is conceptually no different than calling something in the sun.* packages in Java. For years it was ok, and then ... it wasn't. This, however, is draconian: > Continuing to use or conceal non…

> "Keep trying to submit, and we might just ban you forever" is insane.

I was under the impression that if you're being annoying and keep trying to submit a build with private API, making App Store Review's life hard, they're going to ban you. In general, you should be reviewing your dependencies yourself to make sure it's doing things that you approve of; if you can't do that after Apple has warned you that it's doing something that's not allowed I don't really have much sympathy for you.

Re: Electron apps cannot be submitted to the Apple store

#66

Post by saagarjha »

freehunter wrote: post #45
plorkyeran wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's bullshit about banning someone who has been notified that they are in violation of the rules and then tries to hide their use of private APIs rather than stop using them? That's exactly what I would do in Apple's position. Resubmitting the same thing and hoping that it doesn't get caught the next time isn't an honest mistake.

Because Electron developers might say "we fixed it" and the app developer might resubmit based on that and now they're banned due to a mistake made by an upstream dependency. It's not like this app developer is intentionally using private APIs. "Resubmitting the same thing and hoping that it doesn't get caught" seems to be a strawman.

Hence why you should audit your third-party dependencies in cases like these.

Re: Electron apps cannot be submitted to the Apple store

#67

Post by sarah180 »

albru123 wrote: post #40
plorkyeran wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's bullshit about banning someone who has been notified that they are in violation of the rules and then tries to hide their use of private APIs rather than stop using them? That's exactly what I would do in Apple's position. Resubmitting the same thing and hoping that it doesn't get caught the next time isn't an honest mistake.

Huh? The problem isn't that the developer itself is trying to cover his misbehavior, but the fact that the developer can get banned for something out of his control.

The developer is the one who takes responsibility for the submission. Enforcement is meaningless if you can just say "oh I asked you to publish dangerous code, but it's not my fault."

It's the same reason people hold companies like Apple and Nike accountable for working conditions in their factories even if they hired a third party to run them. Third parties are not the ones putting their brand on the product.

Re: Electron apps cannot be submitted to the Apple store

#68

Post by saagarjha »

megous wrote: post #48
plorkyeran wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's bullshit about banning someone who has been notified that they are in violation of the rules and then tries to hide their use of private APIs rather than stop using them? That's exactly what I would do in Apple's position. Resubmitting the same thing and hoping that it doesn't get caught the next time isn't an honest mistake.

Presumably you can't check for violation yourself without submitting.

Of course you can! How do you think Apple's checking your binaries?

Re: Electron apps cannot be submitted to the Apple store

#69

Post by baroffoos »

friedman23 wrote: post #14
natch wrote: post #8

The lesson here is write native apps using the preferred native tools of the platform, and avoid shortcut solutions.

> and avoid shortcut solutions and then the app is never written

Pretty much. Back when apps were native to the platform they would be windows only. It is insane to require every app developer to have to put in 3x the work to rebuild the app for every single platform using its native tools. I would rather have one app that is 3x better and works everywhere. We just need to solve the massive memory issues with electron.

Re: Electron apps cannot be submitted to the Apple store

#70

Post by duskwuff »

thothamon wrote: post #33
mensetmanusman wrote: post #2

Is this an attempt by Apple to increase robustness by reducing dependencies on unsigned binaries?

I feel Apple is moving into somewhat dangerous territory. If the intent, as documented by internal messages and emails, is purely to protect the consumer by forcing people to use only public APIs, that's one thing. But, if Apple is trying to apply anticompetitive behavior against certain technologies, if this rule is selectively enforced, if there is any bad smell or anything dirty about this process, then Apple is i…

I think the intent of these rules is (and generally has been) to allow Apple to classify APIs into "public" and "private" categories, where the public APIs are documented, and will not change or be removed without plenty of notice, and the private APIs aren't any of those things.

In some cases, private APIs are used as implementation details of public APIs. For example, the symbol "NSNextStepFrame" sounds like it might be part of the implementation of NSWindow. In some other cases, Apple has made early versions of some APIs private before later releasing them publicly -- for example, the Catalyst APIs (UIKit on macOS) was a private API for a while before being publicly released, allowing Apple to test the APIs (and potentially make backwards-incompatible changes) before external developers started using it.

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