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Engineer Says Software Firm Cut Her Maternity Leave Short After Her Baby Died

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Re: Engineer Says Software Firm Cut Her Maternity Leave Short After Her Baby Died

#131

Post by belorn »

asveikau wrote: post #85
vecplane wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't imagine what it would be like, and I'm terribly sorry that this happened to you. BUT what's the limiting principle behind 'forcing' companies to provide 'a great deal of leave' for this? I certainly agree that it's reasonable for an employer to offer bereavement time for the loss of a close family member, but why should this be made into law?

Because of cases like this article. Evidently this woman's employer does not have the insight to behave like decent human beings and needs to be forced. Your argument can be turned on just about any labor law. "It may be reasonable for a company to do this, but why should they be forced?" The answer is without reasonable minimum standards, some people will exploit their employees.

Looking at it from a labor law perspective we can look at what other countries have done. Sweden for example do not provide any paid grieving period, but labor laws does give a right to take a leave of absence. Unions often extend this to paid leave, but also limits it to a set number of days, and often the amount seems to be a single day for the funeral.

What I have seen for actually grieving is that either people go back to work or they go to a doctor and get diagnosed with acute stress or depression because of the situation. I suspect that if the case in the article had occurred in Sweden then that is what actually would happen and the person would have got a few months to recover.

Re: Engineer Says Software Firm Cut Her Maternity Leave Short After Her Baby Died

#132

Post by peterangular »

dlp211 wrote: post #94
KaiserPro wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still don't understand how this is going to result in anything positive for the company. the whole point of an HR department is to stop anything developing that could cause productivity issues for a company. Cutting the leave short for because someone's child dies shows a stunning lack of empathy or understanding of wider consequences for staff and company. If I had found out that my company had pulled shit like th…

I have nothing (to my knowledge) but my opinion on this, but I wouldn't be surprised to find that a majority of people just lack empathy.

I'm speaking anecdotally but would 100% posit that this is true. One of the biggest things I'm learning as an adult in a capitalistic society is that empathy is an anti-pattern to how most medium-to-larger sized corporations operate.

Recently I've really come to fully accept that HR at most companies is not there for the employee (regardless of how they internally brand), vs. it being a compliance department and a risk barrier between general employees and the upper-crust. If something bad enough happens, they'll pin it on the HR employee and fire them vs. taking accountability for the company's actions.

HR is not your friend.

Re: Engineer Says Software Firm Cut Her Maternity Leave Short After Her Baby Died

#133

Post by cjbprime »

einpoklum wrote: post #126

The United States is infamous among world nations for lack of mandatory paid maternity leave. Even the unpaid leave is incredibly short: Only 12 weeks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maternity_leave_in_the_United_... This, while the total _paid_ leave available to mothers among OECD nations is ~54 weeks, including 18 weeks average paid maternity leave plus another long period of paid parental leave following it: http:…

That 12 weeks of unpaid leave is only for companies who employ more than 50 people, too. I expect most Americans work for companies smaller than that (and so don't get the leave) but I haven't checked.

Re: Engineer Says Software Firm Cut Her Maternity Leave Short After Her Baby Died

#135

Post by rsynnott »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #27

Title should be fixed to say Sales Engineer.

A sales engineer is a type of engineer (as the term is used in US English; in some countries engineer is a protected term and programmers are rarely eligible for it).

Re: Engineer Says Software Firm Cut Her Maternity Leave Short After Her Baby Died

#136

Post by pharrington »

dlp211 wrote: post #94
KaiserPro wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still don't understand how this is going to result in anything positive for the company. the whole point of an HR department is to stop anything developing that could cause productivity issues for a company. Cutting the leave short for because someone's child dies shows a stunning lack of empathy or understanding of wider consequences for staff and company. If I had found out that my company had pulled shit like th…

I have nothing (to my knowledge) but my opinion on this, but I wouldn't be surprised to find that a majority of people just lack empathy.

That's just not true. It's only in cases of extreme pathology that empathy is absent in people.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/23743735176992... is a good start if you wanna learn more.

Re: Engineer Says Software Firm Cut Her Maternity Leave Short After Her Baby Died

#137

Post by zamadatix »

gamesbrainiac wrote: post #2

I really feel so terrible for Jennifer. It was bad enough that her child had passed away, but it was pouring salt on her wounds when her employer chose to take away her leave days. I think the old adage applies here, "make sure everything is in writing". She was promised a promotion, but she did not sign a contract and nothing was set in stone. I learned to put everything in writing the hard way. If something is in w…

I've yet to see a case getting a promised promotion in writing is reasonable for either side. On the employee side you're basically signing something that says you'll work months at your current rate and not leave when the company has already chosen you anyways. On the company side you're just exposing yourself to risk for something already covered by the hiring process. Both sides should be extremely adverse to either case of exception and let the hiring process do what it's made to do: this.

Some things you want to get in writing, other things you don't want to plan for unless it's in writing.

Re: Engineer Says Software Firm Cut Her Maternity Leave Short After Her Baby Died

#138

Post by walshemj »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #88
walshemj wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compared to the UK the social security system in the USA is fairly generous so if that is affordable so would be maternity leave.

How on earth did you come to that conclusion?

Absolutely compare what a single person gets on JSA to the much more generous Unemployment benefits lasting much longer than it does in the UK

Re: Engineer Says Software Firm Cut Her Maternity Leave Short After Her Baby Died

#139

Post by walshemj »

mattkrause wrote: post #99
walshemj wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compared to the UK the social security system in the USA is fairly generous so if that is affordable so would be maternity leave.

Are you including the NHS in that comparison?

No

I was comparing US unemployment benefits to the UK

Re: Engineer Says Software Firm Cut Her Maternity Leave Short After Her Baby Died

#140

Post by jancsika »

curiousgal wrote: post #10

She got six weeks instead of eight. How dare they. She could've applied for more days based on her psychological state. Also how dare they not pay her commissions earned by her team while she was away. I think the tone is all wrong here. Economically, it makes sense to "discriminate" against pregnant women, so the discussion should be more "Here's why you shouldn't do it" and less "How dare you do it!". Just my $0.02…

> Economically, it makes sense to "discriminate" against pregnant women, so the discussion should be more "Here's why you shouldn't do it" and less "How dare you do it!".

Not sure what century you're living in but here in the 21st the "how dare you" branch is the hair-trigger one. So simple logic dictates to short circuit on "how dare you" and only test "here's why" in the unlikely chance that the first test fails.

Please give me the economic argument for putting the cold branch test in the hot path.

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