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A CS degree is better than teaching yourself how to code?

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Re: A CS degree is better than teaching yourself how to code?

#251

Post by developerdylan »

valleyjo wrote: post #250
vbtemp wrote: post #222

I work with a team of people who mostly have "Software Engineering" degrees. I am one of the few with CS. In short: IN GENERAL - Those with SE degrees (or other non-CS degree, or no degree) can be excellent developers (good code style, good unit test coverage, aggressive PR reviewers, etc). However, the art of computer programming - or computer system design -- is often in formally defining the problem at hand using…

What’s the difference between SE and CS? At some schools with “computer engineering” that covers EE material related to Computers (circuits, CPU design, etc) as well as CS.

At my school, there effectively was no difference. The only differentiator was two extra classes you had to take as an SE.

Re: A CS degree is better than teaching yourself how to code?

#252

Post by xthestreams »

cyrksoft wrote: post #248

Why do people define CS as coding? Computer Science is much more than just coding, it’s a science. At a higher level CS involves a lot of mathematics and statistics. Coding is just a tool for a computer scientist as a hammer is a tool for a builder. Learning to use a hammer is not the same as learning to build a house.

THIS. And it always surprises me when this association comes not only from outsiders, but from CS graduates too. This really shows a worrying lack of communication about the objectives of such degrees (perhaphs intentional?)

Re: A CS degree is better than teaching yourself how to code?

#253

Post by stummjr »

I disagree with this article in so many ways. I have a CS degree and I work with many people who don’t, and they are just as good as (or even better than) me at all the points raised by the article.

They meet deadlines, they are incredibly good at communication and collaboration and they have pretty good networking. Most of these traits come from the fact that they needed to develop them in order to succeed in learning by themselves.

It is a pretty limited view of the world to think that only college can bring you this. Immersing yourself in a coding bootcamp for some people means leaving the jobs they need to survive in order to have a better job in the future. I can’t imagine how being on college can teach more about meeting deadlines, teamwork, communication and perseverance than that.

I wish this article provided more facts to back its beliefs up.

Re: A CS degree is better than teaching yourself how to code?

#254

Post by overgard »

Did anyone else look at the About page and notice the "Awarded Top 50 Programming Blog" image with apparently no attribution of who gave that award or what it is? What's the deal with that? It gives the impression of a made up award he gave to himself...

Re: A CS degree is better than teaching yourself how to code?

#256

Post by jtms »

fargo wrote: post #225
vbtemp wrote: post #222

I work with a team of people who mostly have "Software Engineering" degrees. I am one of the few with CS. In short: IN GENERAL - Those with SE degrees (or other non-CS degree, or no degree) can be excellent developers (good code style, good unit test coverage, aggressive PR reviewers, etc). However, the art of computer programming - or computer system design -- is often in formally defining the problem at hand using…

nitpicking here but aggressive PR reviewers != excellent developers

Being able to read, understand, and recommend improvements on code is definitely a mark of a good engineer.

Re: A CS degree is better than teaching yourself how to code?

#257

Post by lol768 »

b3kart wrote: post #204
lol768 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The lack of appreciation of pure knowledge in this thread is truly saddening. If all you care about is getting a job, this question boils down to simple finance. If you want to truly learn, understand and engage in a topic, what can possibly be better than emmersing oneself in an environment of learning, inquisitive students and knowledgable professors full-time? It's sad, but inevitable with tuition and living fee…

£45k is for international (that is non-EU, for now, sigh) students, right? It’s £27k otherwise. Which is still a lot, but I think we shouldn’t complain: it’s much less than what top US schools charge, and the tuition loan conditions are extremely manageable. I.e. no job == no payments. So I would say it’s a safe investment, especially for a profession with so much demand in the foreseeable future.

>£45k is for international (that is non-EU, for now, sigh) students, right? It’s £27k otherwise.

You're quite right it's £27,750 for home/EU students currently, but I'm including maintenance/living costs in my figure too which realistically will probably be about 5-6k a year. Some universities make working part-time more feasible than others, which can help with this aspect.

If you're international, the total can be closer to £90k after three years (based on a band 2 UG course @ Warwick + £5k per year maintenance/living costs).

>I think we shouldn’t complain: it’s much less than what top US schools charge

I'd respectfully disagree - aiming to be better than the US sets an incredibly low bar. Just like their healthcare, US education is ridiculously expensive and some of the (private) loans seem almost predatory. We should be looking at Europe where in quite a few countries tuition is a few hundred euros a year. Or, thinking back a few years where tuition was £3k or free entirely.

>the tuition loan conditions are extremely manageable

It's definitely a forgiving loan in terms of repayments - but my loan accumulated interest at ~6.3% whilst I was still studying with no proper income. That interest rate is worse than a bank loan.

If you want to take advantage of not having to repay the loan, you're essentially betting against your future earnings potential.

Re: A CS degree is better than teaching yourself how to code?

#258

Post by bradleyjg »

vbtemp wrote: post #222

I work with a team of people who mostly have "Software Engineering" degrees. I am one of the few with CS. In short: IN GENERAL - Those with SE degrees (or other non-CS degree, or no degree) can be excellent developers (good code style, good unit test coverage, aggressive PR reviewers, etc). However, the art of computer programming - or computer system design -- is often in formally defining the problem at hand using…

I'd say that there's something to what you are saying. But the flip side is that where there isn't a well studied problem lurking underneath, and the CRUD app is just a CRUD app, formally educated computer scientists are more likely to find a mirage of one and end up way overcomplicating the solution.

While a good manager should be slotting the right people into the right projects, an important meta-skill for all professionals of whatever background is self-awareness of your own skills and weaknesses and using that awareness to play an active role in determining where you work and what you work on.

Re: A CS degree is better than teaching yourself how to code?

#259

Post by gatherhunterer »

mettamage wrote: post #244

As a bootcamp instructor: 1. I gave deadlines 2. Students did group assignments 50% of the time 3. They learned to work with Git and how to communicate I studied a CS degree and learned less collaboration than my students did. Based on my experience I must conclude with regret that this article is too unnuanced and therefore not very informing, if at all. The author himself can email me for a discussion on mettamage@…

Everything that you need to know about the author’s reasoning is in the “prestige” section. He claims that it is prestigious and therefore good to have a CS degree with no explanation of his logic. This is not a reasoned conclusion, it is an opinionated dig at those whom he feels are invading his space without paying their dues.

Re: A CS degree is better than teaching yourself how to code?

#260

Post by RocketSyntax »

CS degree. Even in product management roles, they all want CS degrees.

I aced a few CS classes, dropped out, and continued to teach myself to code for several years. That seemed to do the trick. The classes were just so boring/ irrelevant, and I wanted to hack on personal projects instead of professorial tasks.

I doubt zuck was learning php at harvard when he wrote FB

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