Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Kids Who Get Driven Everywhere Don't Know Where They're Going (2012)

citylab.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 76 posts

Re: Kids Who Get Driven Everywhere Don't Know Where They're Going (2012)

#61

Post by Broken_Hippo »

maxaf wrote: post #9
nchelluri wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i chuckled. do you use gps?

GPS only makes it worse. It turns out that interpreting an on-screen map takes a non-trivial amount of brainpower that should be directed into safe driving.

This is the opposite of my own experience. Not only am I not as likely to get lost, but having directions read to me means I can pay more attention to the surrounding landscape instead of things like road names. I can also explore without having to worry about not being home for dinner simply because I can always find my way back home.

Comparing my current location to maps in real time (or even alter on when I look at where I've been that day) helps me expand as well.

And to be fair, interpreting an on-screen map takes up slightly less brainpower than a paper map. This is really important since I'm the type that can get my bearings messed up by going in and out of a gas station. I have no real sense of direction and have to work really hard to have what I have - and always have.

Re: Kids Who Get Driven Everywhere Don't Know Where They're Going (2012)

#62

Post by Broken_Hippo »

tasuki wrote: post #54
WalterBright wrote: post #53

When I use a navigator, I can't find my way back. If I look up the route beforehand and look at a map, I can. When I first moved to Seattle, on weekends I would sometimes just aimlessly drive down various roads. I wound up building a mental map of the city that has served me well ever since.

> When I first moved to Seattle, on weekends I would sometimes just aimlessly drive down various roads. This is so American. I don't know anyone in Europe who would aimlessly drive around. If you have to drive, you drive from A to B and that's it. I can understand aimlessly walking around or cycling. Walking or cycling, you perceive the smells and the sounds of the city, you can feel the wind, the sun, the rain. You…

Unfortunately, walking doesn't give me enough sense of the city here to drive it. I take walking paths, which cut through neighborhoods or are separated by barriers. I do not take the vehicle-only tunnel under the city and do not know the exits there. I walk down roads that are dead ends to cars.

Not that I would aimlessly drive here if I had the chance, but that is more because of the price of gas and the fact that it is way more interesting to drive in the countryside. For clarification, I'm in Norway - Trondheim - and am American.

Re: Kids Who Get Driven Everywhere Don't Know Where They're Going (2012)

#63

Post by maxaf »

uiri wrote: post #26
maxaf wrote: post #8

I grew up in Moscow, and my family used a private car to get around the city. I always knew where I was, because I figured one day my turn would come to navigate the roads on my own. I’m raising my daughter in Manhattan, the least car-friendly place in the US. Until we ditched transit and began driving everywhere, she had no idea where we were or in which direction we were heading. Nowadays she makes suggestions from…

I grew up in Toronto and relied primarily on public transit growing up. As a kid, I would have a good mental model of the area around a subway station but as soon as we went underground it was like a wormhole to another part of the city. It wasn't until I was a teenager that I had a good model of how the areas around the different subway stations connected with each other. Did you rely primarily on the subway system…

My daughter was mainly a bus rider, as the places she usually goes aren’t served by the subway. I used to ride the subway to work, but I haven’t in years since I’ve turned to working from home.

My theory is that traveling in a vehicle that is “on rails” (train or tram or bus - they’re all alike in that their routes are predetermined) removes every bit of agency from the passenger, and leaves them completely disconnected from details of the route. Passengers engage in conversation or bring entertainment with them that further weakens the spatial link.

Those traveling in private cars have at least some opportunity left to influence their trajectory or destination. “Perhaps you should make a right turn here” or “let’s stop for ice cream at that place we like” are both things that get said along the way. There’s also the constant stream of teachable moments supplied by other drivers in the form of poor vehicle control.

Re: Kids Who Get Driven Everywhere Don't Know Where They're Going (2012)

#64

Post by QuantumGood »

I didn't know the months of the year in perfect order by the time I was a teenager. I had most of them right, though. When my mother found out I spent a few minutes on the ones I wasn't clear on, reviewed them once or twice and never forgot.

There is nothing that everyone automatically focuses on and remembers when focus and memory are not required.

Re: Kids Who Get Driven Everywhere Don't Know Where They're Going (2012)

#65

Post by thrower123 »

I always had to hold the Delorme Gazeteer or later, run the Garmin, when we went on road trips, from the time I was seven or eight years old. I suspect that early exposure to maps like that is the reason I have to have GPS navigation systems stay north-oriented, rather than rotating with the vehicle's heading.

This was before in-car entertainment systems also, I suppose, so there wasn't much to do other than look out the window, so you'd pick up a lot of the landscape and landmarks as well.

Re: Kids Who Get Driven Everywhere Don't Know Where They're Going (2012)

#66

Post by happytoexplain »

QuantumGood wrote: post #64

I didn't know the months of the year in perfect order by the time I was a teenager. I had most of them right, though. When my mother found out I spent a few minutes on the ones I wasn't clear on, reviewed them once or twice and never forgot. There is nothing that everyone automatically focuses on and remembers when focus and memory are not required.

I'm in my 30s and I still often have to start from January if I want to know which month comes before a given month. Same with letters of the alphabet.

Re: Kids Who Get Driven Everywhere Don't Know Where They're Going (2012)

#67

Post by esotericn »

tasuki wrote: post #54
WalterBright wrote: post #53

When I use a navigator, I can't find my way back. If I look up the route beforehand and look at a map, I can. When I first moved to Seattle, on weekends I would sometimes just aimlessly drive down various roads. I wound up building a mental map of the city that has served me well ever since.

> When I first moved to Seattle, on weekends I would sometimes just aimlessly drive down various roads. This is so American. I don't know anyone in Europe who would aimlessly drive around. If you have to drive, you drive from A to B and that's it. I can understand aimlessly walking around or cycling. Walking or cycling, you perceive the smells and the sounds of the city, you can feel the wind, the sun, the rain. You…

I drove around London all the time when I lived there. I'd do it at night, when no-one was around, when traffic flowed freely.

One day it'll be banned, and for good reason. May as well take advantage of it while it's there.

I walked and cycled as well. Exploring is awesome. I love chatting to someone and having them say "I live in X" and knowing where that is, how to get there, having common knowledge, etc.

Re: Kids Who Get Driven Everywhere Don't Know Where They're Going (2012)

#68

Post by jvagner »

My girlfriend moved towns to move in with me. We both work from home, together... and I usually drive (newer, bigger car).

She doesn’t really know how our town is laid out. We joke about it but know why that’s the case. We’ve just moved. I think she’ll have more solo transit time here.

My son will have to fly back and forth a bit. He doesn’t want a car, so I suspect he’ll know airports and trains better than he’ll know the roads.

Re: Kids Who Get Driven Everywhere Don't Know Where They're Going (2012)

#69

Post by orev »

jvagner wrote: post #68

My girlfriend moved towns to move in with me. We both work from home, together... and I usually drive (newer, bigger car). She doesn’t really know how our town is laid out. We joke about it but know why that’s the case. We’ve just moved. I think she’ll have more solo transit time here. My son will have to fly back and forth a bit. He doesn’t want a car, so I suspect he’ll know airports and trains better than he’ll kn…

I do the same. Move around every few years and work from home. I could not survive without Google maps. Takes me years to learn a new area.

Re: Kids Who Get Driven Everywhere Don't Know Where They're Going (2012)

#70

Post by ecspike »

wirthjason wrote: post #42

To rephrase the title, “people who don’t do things themselves don’t learn to do things.” Growing up in the Chicago suburbs I never knew where I was going until about age 15 my Dad got me a giant laminated map of the city and surrounding areas about 4’ x 5’. I hung it on my wall and it was my job to give directions. Until being forced to learn I never cared. The article is unsurprising. It’s like learning a new progra…

I was designated navigator on road trips with my dad from like 8 or 10. As a adult, I was surprised to see friends using GPS every time to get to their "favorite restaurant" (located a few blocks from their house).

It's a thing that makes ride share a bit maddening because it's clear when folks can't reason about their situation versus blindly following the GPS instructions.

Edit: Riding public transit to middle and high school helped a lot too.

Post reply on HN