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A CS degree is better than teaching yourself how to code?

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Re: A CS degree is better than teaching yourself how to code?

#31

Post by donatj »

Talking with co-workers who completed 4 year CS degrees, I feel like I got a much better value out of my now defunct 2 year trade school.

Mind you this was 15 years ago, but I came out of it with a decent enough working knowledge of C, C++, VB.Net and Java - and basic understanding of SQL, PLScheme and functional. On top of that there was a solid year of data structure class.

Trade schools have been largely demonized and shut down in the last couple years, but I can say honestly I would not be where I am today without it.

I never would have cut it in college, I did really mediocre in grade school, I had trouble focusing on things I didn't care about. However, in trade school I flourished, largely because I actually cared about what I was learning. I graduated with a 4.0 and I make six figures now.

I genuinely see college requirements as a horrible way to filter useful but unbalanced people like myself out of the work force.

Re: A CS degree is better than teaching yourself how to code?

#32

Post by learc83 »

newguy1234 wrote: post #26
learc83 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>can be learned online for free Can is the key word here. Most people don't have the discipline to go through a CS curriculum on their own.

From my experience, if people don't have the discipline to self-study some specific topic then they'll have a hard time in CS. The problem is CS is constantly changing and you need to be routinely upgrading your skills as time progresses to stay competitive in the marketplace. I would even go as far as saying that being able to self-study on your own is an essential life skill, up there with learning how to read/writ…

There's a huge difference in degree between the ability to keep up to date in CS once you have a foundation and building that foundation from scratch.

I worked for years as a programmer before going back for a degree, and I've hired and worked with many people with and without the degrees.

I've yet to run into someone who self studied their way through the equivalent of a CS degree. I'm sure they exist, but they're pretty damn rare.

Re: A CS degree is better than teaching yourself how to code?

#33

Post by dboreham »

tempsy wrote: post #23

A CS degree helps you get an interview. That's pretty much it.

It depends. Say as part of your job you have to read and understand something like this: http://users.ece.utexas.edu/~garg/dist/agarwal-garg-DC.pdf (sampled from my work activities today..)

I suspect a CS degree is going to be pretty helpful.

Disclosure: I have a EE degree.

Re: A CS degree is better than teaching yourself how to code?

#34

Post by ARandomerDude »

Self-taught programmer here, in industry for 10 years now.

> Deadlines

I have these at work.

> Teamwork

I have this at work.

> Communication

I do this at work.

> Prestige

I have this from doing a good job at work.

> Networking

I do this at work.

Sounds like I'll be fine without a CS degree.

Re: A CS degree is better than teaching yourself how to code?

#35

Post by mantap »

Completely disagree. Programmers come from many different backgrounds. Having a non-CS degree is a strength because it means you see the world from a different perspective and have different skills. For instance programmers with a physics background are highly desirable in several spaces. And there are many people with no degree who make very successful careers.

What matters most is your passion for programming. Because if you are curious enough you will learn all that you need.

Re: A CS degree is better than teaching yourself how to code?

#36

Post by learc83 »

goranb wrote: post #11

I'm currently pursuing my CS degree after a couple of decades working as a programmer. The big difference is that you will miss "why" and learn mostly "how", unless you have a very inquisitive mind. On the other hand, not everybody can afford years of no income or crippling debt.

I worked for almost a decade before going back, and I had the same experience.

As for debt, there's no need for crippling debt though if you go to a state school and are planning on working as a programmer.

Re: A CS degree is better than teaching yourself how to code?

#37

Post by cbetti »

newguy1234 wrote: post #26
learc83 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>can be learned online for free Can is the key word here. Most people don't have the discipline to go through a CS curriculum on their own.

From my experience, if people don't have the discipline to self-study some specific topic then they'll have a hard time in CS. The problem is CS is constantly changing and you need to be routinely upgrading your skills as time progresses to stay competitive in the marketplace. I would even go as far as saying that being able to self-study on your own is an essential life skill, up there with learning how to read/writ…

My 300 and 400 level coursework has helped me repeatedly throughout my career, 14 years later. The two themes that keep coming back: What is a computer, and what is a network? And: massive exposure to relevant languages, data structures, algorithms, and math I would not have bothered to study independently.

Re: A CS degree is better than teaching yourself how to code?

#38

Post by learc83 »

jacobolus wrote: post #12
mav3rick wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many self learners have no clue about processes, threads, memory allocation. Nor do they care about algorithmic complexity. They end up using a list for a map etc.i.e. there are foundational gaps in their knowledge. A CS program ensures that there is at least an attempt to build a foundation.

> Many self learners have no clue about processes, threads, memory allocation. This all also applies to “many CS graduates”. My systems-programmer wife has given up asking basic systems questions to new grads in technical interviews because she just expects to get blank stares at this point. Stuff that was expected knowledge of anyone programming computers in any capacity up through the 1990s is now a mystical secret…

If they don't have much worn experience I always look through their transcript.

Re: A CS degree is better than teaching yourself how to code?

#39

Post by czbond »

goranb wrote: post #11

I'm currently pursuing my CS degree after a couple of decades working as a programmer. The big difference is that you will miss "why" and learn mostly "how", unless you have a very inquisitive mind. On the other hand, not everybody can afford years of no income or crippling debt.

I agree with you; I have a CS degree, and when I work with those who learned the programming mechanics (aka making code work) - are often skipped other topics that came in handy for me making other decisions. I can understand why code is slow (eg: BigO for cpu or memory), what structures and algorithms to use in different scenarios (Data Structures & algos), how things are working (Computer Architecture, Programming Languages [theoretical construction of languages], Compiler design), and Automata. Absolutely, these can be learned by oneself - but I find they rarely are.

Edit after thought: Of course, when to use an Array vs a Linked List in your specific language (for example), might not matter if you're doing web apps of medium scale taht one can throw more EC2 instances at

Re: A CS degree is better than teaching yourself how to code?

#40

Post by rileymat2 »

newguy1234 wrote: post #26
learc83 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>can be learned online for free Can is the key word here. Most people don't have the discipline to go through a CS curriculum on their own.

From my experience, if people don't have the discipline to self-study some specific topic then they'll have a hard time in CS. The problem is CS is constantly changing and you need to be routinely upgrading your skills as time progresses to stay competitive in the marketplace. I would even go as far as saying that being able to self-study on your own is an essential life skill, up there with learning how to read/writ…

> The problem is CS is constantly changing and you need to be routinely upgrading your skills as time progresses to stay competitive in the marketplace.

CS moves slowly, tooling moves fast.

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