Over a Third of Americans Battle Job Burnout Every Single Week • Hacker News Board

Re: Over a Third of Americans Battle Job Burnout Every Single Week

#141

Post by bonoboTP » Fri, Nov 01, 2019, 5:25 PM UTC

Ididntdothis wrote: post #5

Americans really need more vacation time. For a while I worked with only 15 days a year. This never gives you the opportunity to ever really relax. Life becomes just one endless meaningless time of working year after year that kills any kind of creativity . I can see this in a lot of workaholics. They just go through the motions of working hard but don’t get much done. And once you have been in that machine for a whi…

American professionals (say, in California) have several times less free time and earn several times more money than Western Europeans (say, Germans). Different cultures value different things.

Re: Over a Third of Americans Battle Job Burnout Every Single Week

#142

Post by thfuran » Fri, Nov 01, 2019, 5:27 PM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #125

mercutio2 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Only” 15 vacation days? I’m not sure if you’re in the US, or if you’re including paid holidays, but 15 days is the average number of vacation days for people with 25 years of tenure in full time jobs in the US. Most people with less tenure get much less. So that wouldn’t be an “only” in the US. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/ebs.t05.htm

10 business days, which comes down to 14 days when you include weekends.

What kind of BS counting is that? Unless you usually work weekends, not working on a weekend isn't a vacation.

Re: Over a Third of Americans Battle Job Burnout Every Single Week

#143

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Nov 01, 2019, 5:29 PM UTC

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #134

pmoriarty wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Overtime would be a lot easier to swallow if you were paid, say, time and a half for weekday overtime and double for weekends or holidays. But, no, most tech employees aren't paid anything extra for it, so management has no incentive to reduce the amount of overtime you actually work. I had one boss who acted very concerned and would keep telling me not to work so late. But at the same time he wanted the same amount…

Sounds like a way to make urban sprawl even worse.

[deleted]

Re: Over a Third of Americans Battle Job Burnout Every Single Week

#144

Post by Mountain_Skies » Fri, Nov 01, 2019, 5:30 PM UTC

beat wrote: post #28

So why do they stay at these awful jobs? Health insurance. Fear of losing, or even changing what they have (sometimes accompanied with some very real and not just anxiety out-of-pocket costs running into the thousands of dollars). Decoupling health insurance from employment is the #1 thing we could do to improve quality of our work. But in the long run, I dream of a day when wage labor is looked back on as nearly as…

Most companies would love to do away with the expense of health insurance and all of the administrative headaches and costs that come with it. But since most full-time white collar jobs offer health insurance, changing jobs might change your coverage some but won't leave you insuranceless. Now if you want to go out on your own or create/work at a startup, health insurance can be a big issue.

Re: Over a Third of Americans Battle Job Burnout Every Single Week

#145

Post by coryrc » Fri, Nov 01, 2019, 5:38 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #138

Ididntdothis wrote: post #5

Americans really need more vacation time. For a while I worked with only 15 days a year. This never gives you the opportunity to ever really relax. Life becomes just one endless meaningless time of working year after year that kills any kind of creativity . I can see this in a lot of workaholics. They just go through the motions of working hard but don’t get much done. And once you have been in that machine for a whi…

If your premise were true, you'd expect countries offering more vacation time to have higher productivity per hour worked. ( I.e. more efficiency, even if less total production.) Instead, the U.S. has among the highest levels of productivity per hour worked: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)... . Americans are much more productive, even on a per-hour basis, than people in advanced democraci…

People aren't reporting the actual hours they work.

Re: Over a Third of Americans Battle Job Burnout Every Single Week

#146

Post by sixstringtheory » Fri, Nov 01, 2019, 5:39 PM UTC

beat wrote: post #105

wonderwonder wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If everyone stopped working, who would grow the food, build the houses or go to medical school? I do absolutely agree with the concept of a UBI but there has to always be people that work otherwise everything collapses.

Why would everyone stop working? If you were given the choice, would you just sit around and eat M&Ms and watch tv all day? Or would you work anyway? Consider your examples. Who would grow the food? Farmers. Because people would grow food anyway (and do), whether or not they get paid, because it's intrinsically rewarding. Building houses? Jimmy Carter is rich and 90-odd years old and builds houses. Med school? Maybe…

Have you ever fed yourself completely from your own garden? That is very hard, back-breaking, dangerous (if you use machinery) work (albeit definitely rewarding). My grandfather was a dairy farmer and was missing part of a finger, knew more than one person who rolled a tractor, and at least one person who was pulled into a hay bailer.

I’d wager the marginal returns from moving beyond feeding yourself for free to feeding a nation are slim, to none, and very likely negative.

Re: Over a Third of Americans Battle Job Burnout Every Single Week

#147

Post by lotsofpulp » Fri, Nov 01, 2019, 5:39 PM UTC

pmoriarty wrote: post #110

kache_ wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work remotely as well and I observe that a lot of people are available outside their regular working hours. I think remote work is part of the problem: the additional blurring between work and life will askew your work life balance. Pager duty can burn you out, but it really depends on how much you get paged and how many people are on rotation.

Overtime would be a lot easier to swallow if you were paid, say, time and a half for weekday overtime and double for weekends or holidays. But, no, most tech employees aren't paid anything extra for it, so management has no incentive to reduce the amount of overtime you actually work. I had one boss who acted very concerned and would keep telling me not to work so late. But at the same time he wanted the same amount…

> Also, commuting time should be paid as work time. There are so many people with crazy commutes that don't get paid a dime for it. I seem to recall that some European country had in fact required companies to pay for their employees' commutes. The US should follow suit.

Yes, we need more discrimination against poor people who can’t afford to live near job centers.

Re: Over a Third of Americans Battle Job Burnout Every Single Week

#148

Post by scottious » Fri, Nov 01, 2019, 5:40 PM UTC

wonderwonder wrote: post #81

beat wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do we need to work? edit: I am 100% serious about this. It is already economically viable, if society chooses to do it , to simply guarantee food, decent housing, and health care to everyone, whether they work or not. At that point, what we do with our time becomes a choice, more than the choice of "work or go homeless and starve". People could still choose to exchange their time and skills for money, and most wo…

If everyone stopped working, who would grow the food, build the houses or go to medical school? I do absolutely agree with the concept of a UBI but there has to always be people that work otherwise everything collapses.

I think maybe they're suggesting that if you choose to work then you could better your life. If you chose not to work, you'd have some fairly modest no-frills lifestyle. There'd still be a strong incentive to work, but less intense pressure to always be employed. I feel like many people are in a situation where they need to have a job so they end up staying in jobs that they consider BS jobs just for that paycheck.

I think it'd be nice to have the option to not work, because then people could take risks and pursue things they otherwise couldn't... I'd never try to take a risk right now because my family is dependent on my passionless job. However if we could take a lifestyle hit (but still survive) and I could try out some business ideas or other career options that I've been thinking about maybe society as a whole could be better off.

I can't say I've thought this through entirely, but it's certainly an idea that intrigues me.

Re: Over a Third of Americans Battle Job Burnout Every Single Week

#149

Post by Mountain_Skies » Fri, Nov 01, 2019, 5:41 PM UTC

beat wrote: post #105

wonderwonder wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If everyone stopped working, who would grow the food, build the houses or go to medical school? I do absolutely agree with the concept of a UBI but there has to always be people that work otherwise everything collapses.

Why would everyone stop working? If you were given the choice, would you just sit around and eat M&Ms and watch tv all day? Or would you work anyway? Consider your examples. Who would grow the food? Farmers. Because people would grow food anyway (and do), whether or not they get paid, because it's intrinsically rewarding. Building houses? Jimmy Carter is rich and 90-odd years old and builds houses. Med school? Maybe…

How many hobbyist sewer workers do you know?

Re: Over a Third of Americans Battle Job Burnout Every Single Week

#150

Post by codingdave » Fri, Nov 01, 2019, 5:46 PM UTC

nightski wrote: post #140

codingdave wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work remotely, and absolutely work off-hours, weekend hours, and some holiday hours. I also take long lunches on weekdays, sleep in if I feel like it, go out on long walks when I need a break, and just stop working mid afternoon if I'm not in the zone. Overall, it balances out. I work when I am productive, usually right around 40 hours a week. But I can see why people would think I'm working extra hours if all they…

I'm kind of in the same spot. But while it feels like freedom to do the things you mentioned (go on long walks, stop working mid afternoon, etc...), in the end our lives revolve around work and not the other way around. I'm struggling with this as breaks aside, there are other things I like to do in life.

You are correct. But working 9-5 in an office doesn't change that. Your work schedule still dictates the broad strokes of your personal schedule, whether you can travel, and such things. Even the concept of "the weekend" exists solely because of work schedules.

Figuring out how to disconnect from work and use the 8 hours of your day that aren't working or sleeping to pursue personal interests is important. The exact answer of how to do that differs between people. But it is a goal worth pursuing.