Microsoft Access: The Database Software That Won't Die • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft Access: The Database Software That Won't Die

#351

Post by dreamcompiler » Fri, Nov 01, 2019, 5:55 AM UTC

dragonsngoblins wrote: post #341

dreamcompiler wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a counterexample it's easy to get this wrong as well. In my EMT career we switched from doing run reports on paper to doing it on the computer. It was a nightmare. No attention to good UI principles had been paid. In the section on "What drugs did you administer?" we had to choose from a scrolling menu of perhaps 100 items for each drug we used (including oxygen which we used on everybody). Simply typing in their…

I imagine this was partly an attempt at data normalization. If you'd been allowed to type it in they would have had to worry about differences in spelling, capitalization, etc. I'm not saying the solution they used was a good one mind, but I bet that was part of the motivation to implement it that way

I expect you're right, but there are better ways (e.g. autocomplete) to achieve that.

Re: Microsoft Access: The Database Software That Won't Die

#352

Post by flukus » Fri, Nov 01, 2019, 6:07 AM UTC

dreamcompiler wrote: post #315

bob1029 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being able to automate forms can absolutely revolutionize some businesses. Many business owners have no idea the extent to which automation is feasible here. I have seen fully manual paper process (printers/scanners/pen & ink/shredders/etc.) go into 100% digital realm and the impact it had on the business. It really is incredible the difference it makes. The most interesting factor was the fact that now that the inpu…

As a counterexample it's easy to get this wrong as well. In my EMT career we switched from doing run reports on paper to doing it on the computer. It was a nightmare. No attention to good UI principles had been paid. In the section on "What drugs did you administer?" we had to choose from a scrolling menu of perhaps 100 items for each drug we used (including oxygen which we used on everybody). Simply typing in their…

> In the section on "What drugs did you administer?" we had to choose from a scrolling menu of perhaps 100 items for each drug we used

I've seen a similar thing at a medical insurance company, not sure if this one was access (that they made IT take over) or winforms, but to make things even worse the list was un-ordered and semi-random. I only found out about it because the main user was bitching to me on a smoke break, but it had been this way for years and cost her at least a couple of hours a day. After the 5 minutes of work to slap an order by clause in there and the weeks worth work getting it though the bureaucracy (yay for that stupid process of billing internal clients) she was in tears.

Efficient and automated claims processing was the whole reason this company existed too.

Re: Microsoft Access: The Database Software That Won't Die

#353

Post by kthejoker2 » Fri, Nov 01, 2019, 10:18 AM UTC

perl4ever wrote: post #339

LegitShady wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use DAX in Power BI which I believe shares a common data model with excel. Dax is powerful but sometimes frustrating. When you need bidirectional relationships you end up making custom measures to keep the whole model performant. Depending on the scale of the problem being looked at it becomes a mess. But Power BI is the access of dashboard world...

Based on my limited experience, Power Pivot has a maddening lack of smooth integration with Excel. Power BI is a separate install, I believe, so not currently an option. I'm stuck with Office 2013 for the time being and can't upgrade or install anything. If I could use anything, I'd probably prefer to go back to SSRS. Maybe Informatica, or OBIEE or something. I'm biased by spending so many years writing SQL, but I fo…

DAX and SQL are qualitatively different languages. They serve different use cases entirely.

DAX is designed solely for analytical queries using dynamic context (so you don't have to code for every user selected filter or relationship dependency in your model.) Its meant to be written once and then used interactively by your users. It has tons of helper functions like time intelligence, iterators and generators ..

SQL is obviously much broader in scope and functionality, but to match the level of built in context driven dynamism of DAX would require a frankly unmaintainable mess.

So yeah if you just need an answer to a single specific analytic query, just write a SQL query.

But if you need to create a measure to show weighted average pricing for any user selected combination of equities, time periods, markets, vendors, and 500 other dimensional attributes - and then create 5 more measures on top of that to show year to date, year over year, performance vs. overall market, simulated demand at a 5% decrease in price, and price excluding large institutional purchases - DAX is your friend.

Re: Microsoft Access: The Database Software That Won't Die

#354

Post by kthejoker2 » Fri, Nov 01, 2019, 10:25 AM UTC

shubb wrote: post #47

alkonaut wrote: post #12

Is there a modern and/or open alternative to this? E.g a SQLite + electron or local web client thing where you could build a simple inventory or similar but you should also be able to scale it to client server when the need occurs 10 years down. Note that any number of cloud startups don’t count as an alternative to access. When these things start it’s as an excel sheet with data that no one will go through the enter…

Arguably Saleforce. One aspect of the product is point and click editable database tables, reports, forms. Actually I think the lesser known parts of office 365 'PowerApps' have various features for point and clicking your way to a cloud database, forms and reports, and even ETL from your existing data sources. However, people don't think of these options like they think of access. For MS and Office 365, they could p…

There's a huge push in MSFT for PowerApps.

Like ... crazy push. They're running free App in a Day workshops in hundreds of cities, and the "Power Platform" (Power BI, PowerApps, and Flow) is their key foot in the door sale in FY20.

Low code/no code is always a Modern Workplace linchpin.

Re: Microsoft Access: The Database Software That Won't Die

#355

Post by nulbyte » Fri, Nov 01, 2019, 11:23 AM UTC

bdcravens wrote: post #218

MisterOctober wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I certainly agree it's no replacement for a proper DB when full SQL functionality is needed, but it does have basic aggregates like count(), sum(), etc, available as formula fields: https://support.airtable.com/hc/en-us/articles/203255215-For...

Yes, but those formulas are scoped to the row, not the worksheet (you can't pass in a range of cells; each row essentially treats its own columns as local variables). SUM() means something completely different in Airtable than in every other spreadsheet out there. I've built out some beautiful Airtables only to find I had to switch to using Google sheets since I couldn't total up the value of a column, something I've…

You can aggregate across multiple rows if you use a separate table to aggregate related records. I've done this for a small nonprofit to aggregate event registration data by year by linking the registration records to a new year table. Sounds kludgy, but it works.

Re: Microsoft Access: The Database Software That Won't Die

#356

Post by nulbyte » Fri, Nov 01, 2019, 11:24 AM UTC

wayneftw wrote: post #313

MisterOctober wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airtable is really good for what it does : makes data-driven tools available for folks who don't want to mess with writing queries or being a DBA, and also has a reasonable API for automations. For heavy stuff, I'll take Postgres anyday given the choice, but Airtable is great for small user-maintainable tools + dashboards, etc

Do you have to pay a monthly fee for everybody who uses your Airtable app though? I think there are also some very low limits to the number rows/columns you are allowed to use? I'm not really sure - honestly asking...

There is a free plan with 1,200 records per base and unlimited bases.

Re: Microsoft Access: The Database Software That Won't Die

#357

Post by wowtip » Fri, Nov 01, 2019, 3:01 PM UTC

alkonaut wrote: post #12

Is there a modern and/or open alternative to this? E.g a SQLite + electron or local web client thing where you could build a simple inventory or similar but you should also be able to scale it to client server when the need occurs 10 years down. Note that any number of cloud startups don’t count as an alternative to access. When these things start it’s as an excel sheet with data that no one will go through the enter…

Maybe Filemaker / Claris

https://www.filemaker.com

Re: Microsoft Access: The Database Software That Won't Die

#358

Post by amostil » Fri, Nov 01, 2019, 8:29 PM UTC

segfaultbuserr wrote: post #8

This is the question I always wanted to ask, I almost wrote an Ask HN... Who use Microsoft Access in 2019?! An obvious case is creating a glorified/enhanced Excel for some specific office tasks, another case is that some applications use ".mdb" backend. But that's all? edit: What I'm interested in is cases of using Access for something other than a specific Excel-like office task - it seems Access is still used for s…

Guilty. I have an AccessDB right now that reads from 3 different management systems to create tasking for a small office and about 450 external independent contractors. The first system is via a web scrape because the API costs too much. The second system is via a SOAP API and the third system is based in MariaDB. It reads data from each system and restructures it for tasking then analyzes and reports on the performance of the completed tasks. It also sends out nagging emails for tasks that are lagging behind and does a million other little things. To say it is a mission critical application is an understatement.

I have been a "developer" or should I say, I used to be a developer since the COBOL/DB2 days. I have used a vast array of systems and languages over the years but I have always had a love for the simplicity and power behind Office. But, the times they are a changing. Right now I am learning Go with the intention of marrying it with VueJS so I can at least pretend to be somewhat current.

Re: Microsoft Access: The Database Software That Won't Die

#359

Post by tlavoie » Fri, Nov 01, 2019, 10:07 PM UTC

pgrote wrote: post #202

linuxhiker wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dbase3 and Clipper here.

I hear you and raise you a Progress.

Ugh, me too!

My manager was a huge fan of Progress, such that it became the de facto tool of choice whether it fit or not.

I was less of a fan, but just checking now, it still exists! I'm curious about this one blurb from their web site though, which proclaims, "Progress Named a ‘Strong Performer’ in The Forrester Wave™: Low-Code Development Platforms For AD&D Professionals, Q1 2019"

I'm not sure how a database applies to sitting around with dice and figurines, but I've never really understood that whole pro gamer thing.

Re: Microsoft Access: The Database Software That Won't Die

#360

Post by teyc » Fri, Nov 01, 2019, 10:37 PM UTC

dreamcompiler wrote: post #315

bob1029 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being able to automate forms can absolutely revolutionize some businesses. Many business owners have no idea the extent to which automation is feasible here. I have seen fully manual paper process (printers/scanners/pen & ink/shredders/etc.) go into 100% digital realm and the impact it had on the business. It really is incredible the difference it makes. The most interesting factor was the fact that now that the inpu…

As a counterexample it's easy to get this wrong as well. In my EMT career we switched from doing run reports on paper to doing it on the computer. It was a nightmare. No attention to good UI principles had been paid. In the section on "What drugs did you administer?" we had to choose from a scrolling menu of perhaps 100 items for each drug we used (including oxygen which we used on everybody). Simply typing in their…

There's a case in Australia where the scheduled claxane was not administered because the table which had the status was off screen because the table was too wide (it was scheduled, but was marked as "cancelled"). The patient died.