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GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

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Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? The Programs division [of INS] was responsible for handling all the functions involved with enforcement and examinations, including the arrest, detaining, and deportation of illegal immigrants as well as controlling illegal and legal entry. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Naturalization...

Exactly. ICE isn't needed.

The name matters to you?

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#212
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The agency will live on past the current administration. The main function of ICE is needed. The policies imposed upon them from above are the root of the problem and need to be removed. But they will be gone in time, hopefully sooner rather than later.

ICE didn't exist until 2003, and isn't necessarily needed.

The predecessor, INS has an interesting history too. I'd experience some kind of small joy if a new INS were re-established "merging these previously separate areas of administration."

>INS, the agency ceased to exist under that name on March 1, 2003, when most of its functions were transferred to three new entities – U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS), U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), and U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) – within the newly created Department of Homeland Security, as part of a major government reorganization following the September 11 attacks of 2001.

>Prior to 1933, there were separate offices administering immigration and naturalization matters, known as the Bureau of Immigration and the Bureau of Naturalization, respectively. The INS was established on June 10, 1933, merging these previously separate areas of administration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Naturalization...

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#213
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's very weird to conflate employees of tech companies caring more about other people's rights with a loss of "the maturity of past times". It wasn't the maturity of past times, it was the status quo of not really caring about anyone else's rights at all. The civil rights movement was only half a century ago!

The maturity could be the ability to compartmentalize. Whether that's a good thing is up for debate. Should we keep religion out of politics? Should we keep politics out of work? I doubt there are any clear answers.

I think if your work is to construct the machines sent to the Nazi's to help perpetrate the Holocaust, you should probably not compartmentalize.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust

The clear answer is that one should never just be following orders and if your company is doing something that you personally feel uncomfortable with, you should try to stop it. And failing that, quit.

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also have to wonder what percentage of GitHub’s employees _are_ non-US citizens. Every programming job I’ve ever had in the U.S. was for a company that was staffed by at least 90% foreigners; if they see U.S. immigration as an adversary, they may be opposing any contract on personal grounds.

> Every programming job I’ve ever had in the U.S. was for a company that was staffed by at least 90% foreigners. Where the hell are you working? I'm going to call bullshit, because it's really not that easy to get a work visa in the US. You're saying 90% of your colleagues weren't US citizens?

[deleted]

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions have historically tended to reward seniority over merit. Tech workers should work to solve that if they organize. I think a lot of problems caused by unions trace back to that. Unions should come back to help recreate the middle class.

It's not clear to me why tech unions would do this. People keep bringing this up, but there's no reason tech unions would ever have to be structured in this particular manner. Given that, I don't find it a compelling argument against unionization in our sector. Most importantly, of all the people who are working on organizing the tech sector, to my knowledge none of them are trying to implement tenure-based seniority…

There's no reason they have to be structured this way, but unions usually work through voting, and the tech sector has a LOT of pretty shitty people coasting, and they'll get a vote that's worth the same as anyone else's. They'll vote to protect their coasting.

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#217

A lot of these companies need to start sticking to their guns and simply letting people go for conflicts like this. If you’re not gonna be a team player there are a billion other tech companies you can go be a part of. I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with the core issue here – but at some point the message needs to be sent that you don’t deserve a job and aren’t owed anything. You work in exchange for cash, plain and…

The amount I am recruited and asked for various forms of interviews -- "grab coffee?", "grab lunch?", "quick 15 minute conversation?" -- can be seen as a counter-example that while cash is our payment, we are not "blessed" to have jobs. They are blessed that I chose to work for them. I can choose to work anywhere at this point. The money isn't the point. I'm not going to contribute to more human suffering, and you won't get to take advantage of my talents if you do.

It's about being a team player for humans first, corporations second. You seem like a bootlicker to the capital class (or an "entrepreneur" trying to LARP). It's the shitty boomer attitude of "you should be grateful to have a job at all." To that, I say "fuck you."

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#218
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because if you haven't noticed, there is a general sense among the younger generations that the many, many ills of yesteryear are actually bad, not just "business as usual" and instead of tolerating them we should start to fight back. The people who are carrying the torch of this mentality were teenagers and twenty-something during the Obama administration. Now they are all grown ups. The better question is, why were…

Oh BS. It’s clearly apparent over the last few election cycles that if your side does something, “it’s unfortunate, but we’re trying to fix it” and if the other side does something “they are horrible people who are monsters”. It comes down to nothing more than scoring political points.

I think it's a mistake to look at "the last few election cycles".

The people making all of this noise were children during that time. Just about everything has changed in the last 5 or so years, and a lot of that change appears to be driven by the historically massive and historically diverse Millennial generation.

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain what you believe White Nationalism is.

White Nationalism (in the US) is a political movement that asserts that the US should be a nation run by and for Caucasians. There are people of other ethnicities that are part of the White Nationalist movement.

I've never heard of that organization. Do they have a web site?

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also have to wonder what percentage of GitHub’s employees _are_ non-US citizens. Every programming job I’ve ever had in the U.S. was for a company that was staffed by at least 90% foreigners; if they see U.S. immigration as an adversary, they may be opposing any contract on personal grounds.

> Every programming job I’ve ever had in the U.S. was for a company that was staffed by at least 90% foreigners. Where the hell are you working? I'm going to call bullshit, because it's really not that easy to get a work visa in the US. You're saying 90% of your colleagues weren't US citizens?

This is true in a lot of places. In my PhD program (in a US university), the vast majority of us are not US citizens.
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