I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb • Hacker News Board

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#451

Post by tasssko » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 9:37 PM UTC

Groxx wrote: post #385

tasssko wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t want anyone picking a hotel for me. I might appreciate if the host calls a few hotels to see which ones have space but I want the final say. My perspective has been that “when I use Airbnb I always have a plan b”. I do. I don’t negotiate, if the listing has issues or was miss-sold I walk out and activate my plan b. Airbnb will always refund if you do it like that.

Seems like there might be ways to combat this with proper incentives though. Say: refund + 50%, or a hotel you both agree on at cost + 25%. It's in the host's best interest to find a replacement, and they're locals so they're likely to be more capable than the visitor. Either way the host is penalized for late changes, and the visitor gets to choose which deal they think is better.

I think thats a good idea but i’d settle for my money back in full so i can maximise options. Right now people are being scammed all over the world because hosts abuse their visitors insecure position. Airbnb needs a buyers guarantee like ebay offers.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#452

Post by kitd » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 9:38 PM UTC

elchupanebre wrote: post #342

Here is another scam that someone tried to pull on me. I booked a place in Reno a week in advance. On the night before check-in at about 2am I got a text from the host asking me to increase the price of stay by $20. That was small and I did not want the hassle of arguing but just decided to leave it till morning. In the morning I looked at it again on computer (as opposed to the phone) and saw something odd: the date…

In a similar vein, a good friend of mine (+ all his family, about 10 in all) was kicked out of an AirBnB at the last minute because it had been double-booked on Booking.com at a higher price, and had just been rented via that site.

I've come across a few such stories.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#453

Post by biztos » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 9:39 PM UTC

taormina wrote: post #382

afjl wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually the first time I've heard of HomeAway, thanks. The only short term rental company I've ever used or heard of was Airbnb. I'll probably be shopping around the next time I travel.

FYI, their consumer name is VRBO. The HomeAway office is here in Austin, but the actual app you use is called VRBO (and I think all the offices are getting new signs soon?).

Originally "Vacation Rental By Owner" -- which I thought was the name of the web site years ago.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#454

Post by mattrp » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 9:41 PM UTC

puranjay wrote: post #345

mattrp wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would second this experience. We travel with our five kids and its sometimes impossible to find a hotel that can accommodate us. That said, I did experience a switcheroo in Chicago similar to the article. However that’s where the similarities end. The place was in the same neighborhood, it was comparable to the listing but the only catch was we were told not say Airbnb to anyone in the building but to say guests of…

If I had to fix a bathroom fixture on my own on a vacation, it would definitely piss me off enough to never use the service again. I'm surprised that you're so nonchalant about it

Well I just stayed in a hotel in Vegas and the air conditioner didn’t work. It was 2 am when I arrived due to late plane. The last thing I wanted to do was wait around for a repair guy or pack it all up and change rooms. At least with the faucet it was a pretty easy fix I could do in about two minutes and it helped the homeowner out. After reading through most of the thread below I would agree I’m generally more nonchalant that many others. I guess I never appreciated the range of awful experiences people have had and how they feel about it. Travel can be rough... I just had a flat tire in the Mojave desert and had to pay $55 to fix it at midnight. The rental car company initially wanted to accuse me of doing donuts or riding off road but once I got someone sane on the phone they gave the straight up policy on these situations. Upon return I showed the repair receipt and they deducted $100 off for the inconvenience. That was cool. I guess you just have to take each experience differently and assess the situation you’re in.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#455

Post by ghaff » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 9:43 PM UTC

marcosdumay wrote: post #410

longerthoughts wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any idea what hotels typically do in this situation? It's not exactly apples to apples but if you're going to make money by the same methods it seems within reason to play by similar rules.

Hotels fail empty, not overbooked. It is very rare that they can't take someone.

Rare, yes. I’ve had it happen and had it happen to colleagues but it’s been a while. And that’s on a pretty large sample size. Anecdotally better than it used to be.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#456

Post by tasssko » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 9:45 PM UTC

kieckerjan wrote: post #368

tasssko wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t want anyone picking a hotel for me. I might appreciate if the host calls a few hotels to see which ones have space but I want the final say. My perspective has been that “when I use Airbnb I always have a plan b”. I do. I don’t negotiate, if the listing has issues or was miss-sold I walk out and activate my plan b. Airbnb will always refund if you do it like that.

So what kind of plan B are you talking about?

To me a planb is to have a few hotels, bnbs in ideal locations i can book at reasonable short notice. I know they have space and they are in my budget. I have extra cash so I don’t have to wait for a airbnb refund if they take time. I don’t use other airbnbs as a planb in case something happens with airbnb. A couple of years back we booked a lovely place in normandy, france with indoor pool for feb half term. The owner cancelled while we were on the ferry. Luckily i had a plan b we drove to a lovely chateau near mon st michel and enjoyed our stay. Airbnb did refunded me quickly but not in time to depend on it for checkin at the chateau. I booked a flat in the uk for a colleague to stay while in uk for a few weeks. The host tried to bait and switch i refused and found an alternative airbnb which as it was went ok. I had to wait for a refund because i paid for 3 weeks.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#457

Post by koyote » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 9:46 PM UTC

elchupanebre wrote: post #342

Here is another scam that someone tried to pull on me. I booked a place in Reno a week in advance. On the night before check-in at about 2am I got a text from the host asking me to increase the price of stay by $20. That was small and I did not want the hassle of arguing but just decided to leave it till morning. In the morning I looked at it again on computer (as opposed to the phone) and saw something odd: the date…

I am not sure I completely understand:

Is the host able to unilaterally change the dates of your booking on AirBnb? Did your agreement to the text (asking for $20 extra) allow him to make the changes?

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#458

Post by jeffdavis » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 9:47 PM UTC

jonlucc wrote: post #344

nathancahill wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I'm in charge of booking a ski trip for ~15 friends each year, and the amount of reading between the lines I have to do to make sure everyone has a comfortable place to sleep is crazy. Tons of places count sofas/pullouts/day beds in the "Sleeps # of People", and they often count the temporary beds as space for 2. So you'll see places that say, Sleeps 16, but there are only 3 or 4 real beds. Hotels have it right…

This isn't foolproof either, though. I booked a hotel for 2 people in Chicago for an anniversary trip. We arrived to find the hotel had 4 very narrow and short bunkbeds. I checked the booking and it makes no mention of this. The only reason we think of a hotel booking as being up front is that there is a standard observed across the industry: either 1 king or 2 queens. There's no similar standard for AirBnBs.

There are also hotel brands and official indeoendent star ratings.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#459

Post by koyote » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 9:49 PM UTC

yason wrote: post #335

The late cancellation by host without no specific penalties seems to be one of the most prevalent yet disturbing elements in this. The one who's travelling has the weakest odds of all. The traveler will be in a foreign place with no place to stay. In contrast, the host has no losing cards except some income. The rules should, thus, have been written to protect the traveler at the expense of the host because the host…

The traveller is penalised the full price of the stay if they cancel late. Why is the host not penalised the same amount (which would then be credited to the traveller as compensation)?

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#460

Post by biztos » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 9:51 PM UTC

chrischen wrote: post #18

mattpavelle wrote: post #5

Why don't companies like AirBNB who have a lot to lose (reputation wise) from a (small?) number of scammers sue those scammers into oblivion? Not only are they violating the TOS but they are committing fraud, and likely breaking a few other laws. AirBNB must know who they are as those scammers are getting paid, right? It would be expensive for AirBNB (they would certainly lose money) but it can't cost more than the r…

The vast majority of Airbnbs I’ve stayed in were illegal hotels/rentals... only a handful were legit renting out a spare room / couch surfing type deals and the first time I did that I had to pretend I was the host’s college friend. Airbnb is basically built on shifting liability to shifty people running hotels out of rentals. Also, pro tip, I’d guess at least 50% of the airbnbs I’ve stayed in do not wash the sheets…

I stay in AirBNBs a couple times a year (used to do more) and I would agree it's mostly "illegal" rentals but interestingly, in the US I found more "company owns a bunch of flats" things and in the EU more "some dude owns this one flat or maybe two." (And in parts of the EU it's totally legal as long as your neighbors in the building have not managed to forbid it, which isn't always possible.)

I even have a friend who owns one flat, AirBNB's it, and rents another flat of about equal quality. In his case it's legal and a kind of interesting way to work the market; however it is ruinous to the rental market for locals.

I'm about to stay in one in Asia that very much seems to be a place someone lives about 1/3 of the time, and the rest of the time they rent it out. Apparently this is allowed there, but I'm curious what the vibe will be in a big luxury apartment building with many AirBNB listings.

I also agree that the AirBNB business model is impossible without shifting liability, but it seems like in many cases you're not so much shifting as removing it. Hotels are subject to all sorts of laws to ensure the safety of guests; these laws have developed over time and usually as the result of bad things happening; outside of maybe the US, nobody is kidding themselves that there is any meaningful liability on the part of a flat owner.