I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb • Hacker News Board

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#301

Post by Mediterraneo10 » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 6:28 PM UTC

tempsy wrote: post #228

I find it pretty crazy that AirBnB's tech never really evolved on the host or guest side at all. The experience is still basically like a pretty Craigslist with payment processing. I sometimes wonder what an engineer there even does other than maintain a CRUD app. For example, why isn't there an Alexa-like concierge device in every AirBnB that answers guest questions by now? Why aren't there smart locks on every home…

> Why aren't there smart locks on every home that unlocks with the app?

AirBnB is reportedly pressuring hosts to install smart locks, but they are getting pushback from hosts who like socializing with the people who come to stay at their property. Yes, a huge amount of AirBnB listings are faceless property developers now, but there is still a good slice of individual families renting out a spare flat. Sometimes the host is an elderly person who craves that kind of interaction with other human beings (which can be awkward as a guest when you just want to quickly lock yourself in the rental and have some time alone).

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#302

Post by kingbirdy » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 6:31 PM UTC

bluedevil2k wrote: post #121

I've run into a scam recently on AirBNB and several situations that ended up screwing me over. The scam was after booking a nice place in Orlando, Florida for a week through my wife's AirBNB account. The day after booking, the "owner" sent an email saying that they required a photograph of the front and back of her credit card, drivers license picture and full name. Not even a subtle scam, but that would probably foo…

The asymmetry of the platform is really my biggest gripe. Hosts & AirBnB themselves have basically no way to lose money on the platform and are laughing all the way to the bank, while users can be left with nowhere to stay 5 minutes before check in, and be forced to pay 2-20x what they paid for the AirBnB to get a comparable place last minute. It's absolutely fucked, and it's the same deal for most major corporations.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#303

Post by ghaff » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 6:31 PM UTC

president wrote: post #220

dannykwells wrote: post #175

I think what Airbnb, and uber, lyft, Amazon etc. All fail to understand is the longevity ans stickiness of brand. Once you become an untrustworthy or low quality brand, it's very hard to change that. You can still do fine (see: wal mart) but you'll always be looking over your shoulder for higher quality brands that poach the most lucrative customers, and eventually, thats what will lead to your downfall (see: wal mar…

Walmart, the airline industry, et al proved that people will put up with garbage experience as long as your goods/services are priced cheap enough.

And there are plenty of low end hotel chains, e.g. Motel 6, that I assume are doing OK. But I also assume they offer some base level of crappy quality (in addition to things like a 24 hour desk and no question that they're actually allowed to rent the room.)

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#304

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 6:31 PM UTC

scrooched_moose wrote: post #262

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain the "!mill" directive?

It redirects to Million Short, a search engine that removes results for the top N websites. Helpful for filtering out the Pinterest/Yelp/AngiesList/Home Advisor spam that fills the first several pages of results for most local searches.

Very cool. Thanks for the explanation. It sounds useful!

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#305

Post by floren » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 6:32 PM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #249

bluedevil2k wrote: post #121

I've run into a scam recently on AirBNB and several situations that ended up screwing me over. The scam was after booking a nice place in Orlando, Florida for a week through my wife's AirBNB account. The day after booking, the "owner" sent an email saying that they required a photograph of the front and back of her credit card, drivers license picture and full name. Not even a subtle scam, but that would probably foo…

The renter gets charged when the host cancels the reservation?

He meant that the owner can cancel for free, while if the renter wants to cancel they will most often end up paying a fee. The wording confused me too for a minute.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#306

Post by afjl » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 6:34 PM UTC

trenning wrote: post #169

Airbnb won't provide a full refund in many of the cases from the article but shouldn't you still be able to file a charge back on your credit card and get your money back without dealing with Airbnb? Does it work like that or do I have a misunderstanding of how charge backs work?

According to a number of posts, (some?) credit card companies have closely partnered with AirBnB and will not accept your chargeback.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#307

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 6:34 PM UTC

yrro wrote: post #12

CodesInChaos wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's largely the card issues fault. They charge a fee for each chargeback and punish or increase the fees for merchants who receive many chargebacks, so merchants try to avoid chargebacks, which includes banning everybody who uses them.

If a business bans customers who charge back after being defrauded then the fault is with the business, not the card issuer. What surprises me is that the card issuers don't come down harder on businesses with this practice. I suppose Airbnb is a pretty large customer (of the card issuers) and so aren't so easy to influence, however...

[deleted]

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#308

Post by blueadept111 » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 6:34 PM UTC

JadoJodo wrote: post #164

blueadept111 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. I've been both a host and customer for many years, and in general I've found the customer service to be good or even very good for resolving issues either as a host or as a customer. In fact, many 'scare' articles about airbnb puzzle me, because it seem seems that the problems could have been avoided if the guest had read the reviews and/or booked with a superhost (or other host with a history of good rev…

> or other host with a history of good reviews But how can I trust that the reviews are good if, as this article talks about, people are hesitant to post anything but good reviews for fear of receiving a retaliatory review?

Neither review is visible until both are done, so that's nonsense.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#309

Post by yrro » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 6:34 PM UTC

CodesInChaos wrote: post #200

yrro wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a business bans customers who charge back after being defrauded then the fault is with the business, not the card issuer. What surprises me is that the card issuers don't come down harder on businesses with this practice. I suppose Airbnb is a pretty large customer (of the card issuers) and so aren't so easy to influence, however...

You assume it's the business that committed fraud. In many cases talking to the merchant's support would resolve the issue (e.g. via a full refund) without having to escalate to an expensive chargeback. There is also the fun technique of attacking a merchant (or charity) by sending them money from stolen credit cards, which will stick them with chargeback fees and an eventual ban by the card processor.

Please note that I said that the customer had been defrauded. I didn't say that Airbnb was the one committing the fraud--although they are certainly profiting from it!

I agree that customers should make reasonable attempts to resolve issues with merchants, and not go straight for the nuclear option of a chargeback.

However, if I deal with a company and they don't resolve issues to my satisfaction within what I consider a reasonable period, I do not hesitate to make it clear that I will be contacting my bank to dispute the charges.

Funnily enough, I have never actually had to do so: the mere threat seems to be sufficient to convey to the company that yes I do actually expect them to solve my problem.

The system works, at least for those privileged enough to be aware of their rights, and to have the ability to issue effective threats to merchants who don't respond to complaints within good time.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#310

Post by oh_hello » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 6:36 PM UTC

julienchastang wrote: post #51

There have been a few threads about AirBnb lately with a lot of people reporting negative experiences so I will add my own $0.02. I have stayed in many AirBnbs. The reason is, I find it is the only way to have a tolerable family vacation is when everyone has their own sleeping quarters. When we are all piled into one (often overpriced and not so clean) hotel room, it makes for less than ideal sleep and everyone ends…

I also have repeatedly used AirBnB in the past to try to make life easier with children. After getting burned repeatedly, I gave up. You can book a place like Embassy Suites for a similar amount of money and have a bit more space than a standard hotel room. It just isn't worth the hassle of researching AirBnB listings and dealing with the fallout from the bad ones to me anymore.