So bring it on I say! Just apply to any mayor classical bio-company. I mean biologists need to become data-scientists and computer scientists more and more, and they can use a lot of help. For example: During my internship in 2003 I did DNA sequencing, I spend all day making a gel and loading it and I read 200 basepairs of DNA of a printed paper to check my results. Today we have an Illumina sequencer in the lab, it produces 60 billion basepairs every couple of days. We are nowhere anymore without computers and computer scientists.
Ask HN: Getting started in biology with a software background
51–60 of 150 posts
Re: Ask HN: Getting started in biology with a software background
#52Having a PhD is not essential -- I know many successful VCs, founders and operators without PhDs -- but you absolutely need an appreciation of science. People like to hire PhDs because they have a fundamental knowledge of biology and or chemistry and they have deep experimental experience in a specific domain. Without that experience doing experiments it's hard to really understand the challenges of science and rigor required. That said not all PhDs give you that, and academic science tends to be less rigorous than industry science
Also, developing a drug requires PhD level experience in many domains and no one person can do it all. A neuroscience PhD won't necessarily qualify you to review tox data. You need people who can quickly get up to speed on various technical fields, find experts and have productive conversations with them
You need to understand the drug development process at a basic level. There are lots of articles about this online, here's one I wrote [0]
You need to understand how to evaluate and critique scientific and clinical data. It is easier to start by looking at clinical data. You can learn to analyze this data without a PhD if you spend time with it and ideally have a mentor. Here is a case study I wrote on basic concepts in evaluating clinical data [1]
Evaluating preclinical or scientific data is much harder. In nonhuman studies you are measuring more endpoints with less direct relationship to human disease in more contrived systems. The experiments also tend to be less rigorously designed, executed and documented (at least in academia) so there are all kinds of pitfalls to avoid that you can't really know without experience. This is where a PhD really helps
To start learning this just struggle through papers. Find a paper that interests you and read it in depth. Learn what each experiment and instrument does. Learn what each molecule does. Here's an example I wrote translating a synthetic biology paper into layman studies terms to give you a sense of what goes into reading a paper [2]
If you have a scientist friend who can walk you through papers that speeds up the process by orders of magnitude and you can learn so much
At first read for comprehension. Then read with a critical eye. Why did they do this experiment instead of this other one? Are they missing an important control here? Is this model robust? Are the conclusions they draw stronger that what the data suggest?
Learn how drugs are valued. Valuation is different in biotech than any other sector. Drugs don't have revenue or users for years. A drug can. A worth $10B before FDA approval. Value in biopharma comes from reducing technical risk. I wrote a post about that here [3]. Most biotech founders lack either the science or business knowledge needed. It is easier to learn the business stuff so that can let you add value to a company while learning more about the science
[0] https://www.baybridgebio.com/blog/drug_dev_process.html
[1] https://www.baybridgebio.com/blog/aducanumab-analysis
[2] https://www.baybridgebio.com/blog/synbio-laymans-terms.html
Re: Ask HN: Getting started in biology with a software background
#53Get the notion that "biology is a computer that we can fundamentally and totally understand at the level that we understand Church-Turing" out of your head as soon as possible because it is incorrect. Biological systems are complex, they are deeply nonlinear, we do not even come close to understanding the functional behavior of their components (or, indeed, what those components even ARE) the way we can understand transistors or chips or API specs, etc.
The sooner you get used to believing that "I can't prove anything, but we have a pile of mostly not contradictory evidence that suggests that most of the time this idea is a pretty good heuristic and our error bars are reasonable", the better you'll do and the saner you'll remain.
Some recommended worldview reading for you:
The Andy Grove Fallacy: http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2007/11/06/and...
Can A Biologist Fix A Radio: https://www.cell.com/cancer-cell/pdf/S1535-6108(02)00133-2.p...
Can A Neuroscientist Understand A Microprocessor https://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=10.1371/jo...
And if you like, I can provide a basically endless stream of papers of the form "we thought X did Y and we knew what X was; it turns out that X actually does Q, it also turns out we don't know why X does anything at all, but when we do X we sometimes get Y so we've been confused for the past 50 years"
Re: Ask HN: Getting started in biology with a software background
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
1) Not enough for starting a biotech startup as OP would like to do. Having a PhD means that you've spent years on a certain subject. You cannot just read a book and be up to speed on biomedical research and CRISPR. 2) Having hands-on experience in wet labs is useful and relatively easy to learn. People can learn wet lab skills sufficient to carry out experiments (i.e. pipetting stuff together) in under a year. This…
RE: "Having a PhD means that you've spent years on a certain subject. You cannot just read a book and be up to speed on biomedical research and CRISPR." Isn't that what books are for? To compile, document and share knowledge some people spent years to figure out?
I mean, by all means, try it. But life sciences are not computer science. The approach is entirely different and quality of the work you need to do is different. It looks much, much easier than it is. (Which is, on a different note, why I believe the whole pseudoscience crap such as anti-vaxxers is gaining so much traction)
Re: Ask HN: Getting started in biology with a software background
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
In biology, the problem space is extremely vast and very hard to understand. I have a PhD in biology and find computer science relatively logical and simple. You can just look things up. Looking things up for a specific topic is not even easy in biology.
> Looking things up for a specific topic is not even easy in biology How do you find info on bio topics right now?
Re: Ask HN: Getting started in biology with a software background
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
> you are going to need a PhD if you want to truly understand all of the background of the field Is that the need, though? Few SaaS CEOs truly understand all the background of computer science. They do understand the problem space, but they leave it to the experts in the organization to get into the details of applying computer science to the problem. Is biology different, where the level of expertise needs to be at…
The key distinction here is starting a company vs leading a company. To just walk in and lead an established company - you'd be fine with a better than average understanding, as long as you trust the experts in your company to do what is right. To found a company? How do you know where to start? If you are hiring PhDs to come up with the idea for you, how do you if their ideas are novel or worthwhile? Not to disparag…
Re: Ask HN: Getting started in biology with a software background
#57I'm curious who all these sarcastic bio "experts" are that are suggesting getting a PhD or hiring one. I'm a former bio major and researcher/scientist that transitioned to software engineering years ago. I've published papers in bio and worked with many PhDs. Many of them were idiots. Being a PhD doesn't mean anything, it's the independent work that you put in yourself (in an academic lab or by yourself) that determi…
A practical way to do this is to invest in biotech stocks. This will expose you to clinical data, the regulatory process, and how value is created and destroyed. Evaluating clinical data and unmet medical needs is the core skillset in evaluating market potential of a drug, device, diagnostic or patient-facing software
Having skin in the game will help you focus your learning. But only invest as much as you can afford to lose, treat it like tuition.
Re: Ask HN: Getting started in biology with a software background
#58Not all of the places on that list will have biology labs, but some will! It's a good way to get some experience at the bench without going the degree route.
Re: Ask HN: Getting started in biology with a software background
#59Re: Ask HN: Getting started in biology with a software background
#60I'm in my 5th year of a chemical biology PhD and I'm looking to potentially move into computer science/data science (been programming for 15 years) after I graduate. Maybe we can just switch? I work with CRISPR for my project. In all seriousness, you are going to need a PhD if you want to truly understand all of the background of the field. Human biology/biochemistry is just about the most complex thing humans have e…
It is important to have a fundamental understanding of biology and chemistry, and ability to critically evaluate data, but once you have that, its more important to be able to find people with the right domain expertise and have productive interviews with them about data. If you are a neuroscience PhD you should not be evaluating a cancer assay or a GLP tox study on your own, you should read enough to have a productive interview with someone with more expertise, then go have that interview
You need a rigorous science background to start a company but that is not sufficient. Many projects are just not fundable. For non scientists, id recommend learning how the industry works and how value is created, because that complements the expertise of scientists who know the science but dont know the right clinical applications