Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment • Hacker News Board

Re: Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment

#41

Post by lowercased » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 4:10 PM UTC

melvinroest wrote: post #33

zentiggr wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe some of these companies see DoodleDocs and wonder if you'd be a bad fit for a CRUD type position? Like, you've already gone beyond a lot of those basic needs, so why would you "step down" to a CRUD job?

Good point: I do have a hard time communicating why I'm fine with a CRUD position. Because sometimes I think things are self-evident, when they're not and then I poorly communicate them. One of the reasons is: when you look at my resume (I'm Googleable), I am simply just starting out. And just doing the grind for 2 or more years would ground me in what I've experienced the past 8 years during my studies and jobs I di…

"I'm fine with a CRUD position"

Are you? Then put together some CRUD line of business stuff. You may actually find you don't like it, or get 'too creative', or... whatever.

Build a small CRM. Allow people to add doodles to the user records. Case solved...

Re: Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment

#42

Post by melvinroest » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 4:10 PM UTC

eigenvalue wrote: post #30

melvinroest wrote: post #24

I'm honestly experiencing this as a CS grad in the Dutch job market. I find it weird and frustrating. I've noticed why: 1. Companies don't dare to value creativity [1]. University is so liberal and the job market is so the opposite. 2. Most companies can't value a CS degree. The exception is when enough people in the company did a CS degree and that's a lot more rare than I thought. 3. University didn't teach me to f…

It seems like you have diagnosed the issue, and that you believe it is simple and easy to fix. So why not just whip up a nice looking CRUD web app over the weekend and solve your problems? It doesn't matter how "hard" something is if it doesn't demonstrate to the typical employer that you can solve their business problems.

Judging on your comment, I'm beginning to realize that compared to those business perspectives, I simply want to move too fast.

Based on my own experience, in most cases when I tried to move too fast things went fine. And sometimes they went horribly wrong (but since other times it went fine on average it was always pretty good). So there's a bit of risk involved.

What happened in the world for people not daring to take risk?

But alright, I'll build a nice looking CRUD app. I suppose I should build it in at least 5 languages, because if you can do it NodeJS that doesn't mean that people trust you to be able to do it in C#.

Re: Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment

#43

Post by commandlinefan » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 4:11 PM UTC

melvinroest wrote: post #24

I'm honestly experiencing this as a CS grad in the Dutch job market. I find it weird and frustrating. I've noticed why: 1. Companies don't dare to value creativity [1]. University is so liberal and the job market is so the opposite. 2. Most companies can't value a CS degree. The exception is when enough people in the company did a CS degree and that's a lot more rare than I thought. 3. University didn't teach me to f…

> nobody cares that I fast-tracked

In fact, if fast-tracking cost you even 1/10 of a GPA point, it is actively hurting you - if they’re comparing somebody with a 3.9 GPA to somebody with a 4.0 GPA, whether the second candidate got that extra 0.1 because he was only taking one class per semester doesn’t come into consideration.

Re: Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment

#44

Post by tyingq » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 4:13 PM UTC

Individual experiences are interesting, but not automatically indicative of a trend. Maybe she's just terrible in interviews? I've certainly interviewed people that were obviously intelligent, but paralyzed with nervousness. Tried compensating, but the situation was too far gone to salvage.

Re: Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment

#45

Post by melvinroest » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 4:13 PM UTC

commandlinefan wrote: post #43

melvinroest wrote: post #24

I'm honestly experiencing this as a CS grad in the Dutch job market. I find it weird and frustrating. I've noticed why: 1. Companies don't dare to value creativity [1]. University is so liberal and the job market is so the opposite. 2. Most companies can't value a CS degree. The exception is when enough people in the company did a CS degree and that's a lot more rare than I thought. 3. University didn't teach me to f…

> nobody cares that I fast-tracked In fact, if fast-tracking cost you even 1/10 of a GPA point, it is actively hurting you - if they’re comparing somebody with a 3.9 GPA to somebody with a 4.0 GPA, whether the second candidate got that extra 0.1 because he was only taking one class per semester doesn’t come into consideration.

I never thought of that. That's a good point. My master degrees have high GPA's because I didn't fast track them. But other than a tier 1 consultancy firm (I went far and wide with this job search), no one seemed to care about my grades.

I'm happy at least one company did.

Re: Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment

#46

Post by pjc50 » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 4:13 PM UTC

crdoconnor wrote: post #32

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right! Engineers driving busses; office managers flipping burgers. And the administration dares to call it 'full employment'. Its part of the very wealthy keeping all the money - if nobody has a skilled job, we don't get (much) income, and wealth inequality zooms onward. A better measure of employment would be, how much total payroll is across the country. Per capita if you like. That would tell us how we're doing. N…

Somewhat ironic since we were told in no uncertain terms that automation would cause the exact opposite to happen.

"Service" roles have been put in a weird state where, because they involve relating to humans, they're difficult to automate. But because they involve doing what you're told, with low room for autonomy and creativity, they're low-status and therefore low paid.

Re: Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment

#47

Post by bachmeier » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 4:13 PM UTC

pithymaxim wrote: post #19

>nearly 40 percent of Americans, a Federal Reserve report found, are in such a financially precarious state that they say they would have trouble finding $400 for an unexpected expense like a car repair or a medical bill. This has got to be the most repeated statistic in reporting on hardship, but the actual responses seem way less dire: https://twitter.com/p_millerd/status/1118071142311288838?lan...

Perhaps better is to read the comments from the person responsible for the report: https://twitter.com/Claudia_Sahm/status/1073951343608545280

Re: Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment

#48

Post by commandlinefan » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 4:14 PM UTC

brookhaven_dude wrote: post #29

shams93 wrote: post #16

I'm having the same experience but I keep in mind that the Trump admin lies and also promotes discrimination. I lost my job to an h1b, in a good economy it takes me 2 weeks to find a new job this is anything but a strong economy. Lie with stats how you like but you can't use lies to generate reality the real economy is what it is.

It is illegal to hire an H1B if a qualified American is available. You should file a complaint with DoL.

If a law is literally never enforced, there's not much point in having the law.

Re: Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment

#49

Post by hn_throwaway_99 » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 4:14 PM UTC

lowercased wrote: post #17

sharkweek wrote: post #4

In my early (okay... mid) thirties now. I have been laid off once and left on my own will from three jobs through the last 12 years of my career. Being laid off puts kind of a stink on you, even if slight, that requires a bit of interview time be spent clarifying WHY you got laid off instead of entirely being able to focus on experience, accomplishments etc. When I was moving from one place to another, there seemed t…

I've always understood there to be a difference between "laid off" and "fired". "Fired" tends to be because of you, "laid off" is more on the company's side. I was "fired" once (well, twice, in the 90s) because I wasn't pulling my weight. I was 'laid off' once (in the 2000s) because the company was running out of money, and had to lay off around half the company. That wasn't really anything to do with my performance…

The reason it has a stigma, though, is that when layoffs happen, companies tend not to layoff their star performers, or they do at least some amount of stack ranking. Of course that is not always the case (sometimes entire departments are closed if a company exits a line of business, or the entire company itself folds), but if the company had a ~5-30% across-the-board layoff, it's generally assumed some level of personal-level decision making goes into deciding who gets laid off.

Which is why I'll repeat the advice: the best time to find a new job is when you've already got one. Layoffs very rarely come without any warning, so if things start to look even a little dicey, not a bad idea to at least put your resume out there.

Re: Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment

#50

Post by BrentOzar » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 4:15 PM UTC

melvinroest wrote: post #42

eigenvalue wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like you have diagnosed the issue, and that you believe it is simple and easy to fix. So why not just whip up a nice looking CRUD web app over the weekend and solve your problems? It doesn't matter how "hard" something is if it doesn't demonstrate to the typical employer that you can solve their business problems.

Judging on your comment, I'm beginning to realize that compared to those business perspectives, I simply want to move too fast. Based on my own experience, in most cases when I tried to move too fast things went fine. And sometimes they went horribly wrong (but since other times it went fine on average it was always pretty good). So there's a bit of risk involved. What happened in the world for people not daring to t…

> What happened in the world for people not daring to take risk?

If you're a real risk-taker, you don't apply for a job working for someone else. You go build something and blaze your own path.

Companies usually value predictability over risk-taking. You'll learn that lesson once your own assets are at stake: you'll likely hire someone to execute on what you want, rather than someone who "takes risks" and does their own thing.